re: Lebron < Kobe

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Kobe is a terrible leader and when the chips are down he bitches out his teammates and quits on his team. He is a great competitor but when things turn for the worse, he is the first one to point the finger at anyone else. He has been one of the most fortunate guys in the NBA as far as quality of teammates. For the four years he did not have quality teammates, he was a terrible leader.

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Kobe is not a terrible leader. He just wants to win more than anyone else, so when shitheads like Smush, Brian Cook, and Kareem Rush are doing shithead things, he's going to bitch at them.

Also, please show me where Kobe blames his teammates in tough times. The only things he's said about his teammates that was controversial was that Shaq was coming into camp fat and lazy (which he was) and that he'd rather a good player than a project in Bynum (which he was).

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He has been one of the most fortunate guys in the NBA as far as quality of teammates.

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Plenty of guys have had great teammates, but none of them worked as hard or were as talented as Kobe. ZERO of his rings were handed to him. He earned them all.

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For the four years he did not have quality teammates, he was a terrible leader.

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Dude, he did whatever it took for the team to win. He wasted prime years in his career for scrubs, but he played his arse off and continued to work hard. Ever heard of lead by example? Not his fault they were headcases with no talent.

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Kobe still shows his teammates up in games all the time.

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All the time? Damn, it'll be easy for you to give me some examples. Please don't say anything weak like "whenever Pau misses a layup Kobe yells at him."

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Few elite guys have had the teammates Kobe has had in the modern era. You can point to the '60s/'70s when there were few teams but I can't think of an elite player that has had the type of guys Kobe has had around him.

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Shaq? Shaq's contribution to his last ring is far inferior to any contribution Kobe has made to his 4. Neither player wins shite without the other those three years.

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Guys have played their whole careers with scrubs and handled it better than Kobe did. Kobe has had four years without an elite sidekick.

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They may be fine with just being great players and not champions. Think about this, Kobe called out his management for fricking him over with a shitty cast in the summer of 2007. He said he signed an extension because they told him they'd give him a team he could contend with. When he said he wanted to be traded, they fulfilled their half of the deal and got Gasol for the second half of the season. Result? Two Finals appearances and a championship. Kobe wants to win at all costs. If it takes telling people that they aren't doing their job, then so be it. Success isn't for the timid.

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How many players go for 27-19-10 and be called out for playing terribly and giving up on his team?

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yeah the guy almost had a QUADRUPLE DOUBLE!!!!

Oh wait 9 turnovers is a bad thing

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man this is awesome listening to lebron fans make excuses for him. all season long i heard the cavs dominated the lakers this year. the cavs had a great record against the west, this team cant be beat blah blah blah now all of a sudden he has the worst supporting cast ever. lebron is a great player, will be one of the all time greats when its said and done but right now hes yet to develp kobes killer instinct. hes very passive at times. kobe is still better in the clutch than lebron, deal with it

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+ 1000

The Lebron excuses are almost becoming Jamarcus-like. Even James fans have to admit that this guy isnt a closer yet. Not even close. Comparing him to Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird etc at this time is a fricking joke. He shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence. He's not clutch. He showed up like a pansy this series and anyone, even the most staunch James lovers have to admit it.

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He's not fully there yet, but I'd say LeBron has shown he can close games. He's done it in multiple playoff games and series. He single handedly took a lineup of him, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Sasha Pavolic, and Big Z to the finals.

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While playing .500 teams most of the way. The bottom three teams in the east playoffs that year had a combined losing record.

Further, people forget Big Z and Hughes were decent players then.

In fact, the best team a Lebron led team has ever beaten in the playoffs was the aging Pistons team from that season. Lebron has NEVER beaten a playoff team with more than 53 wins.

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Further, people forget Big Z and Hughes were decent players then.

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Z, yes. Larry Hughes was a fricking joke.

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Yes but still>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mo Williams.

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If I can remember correctly, Hughes was a much better defender, but his offense game was awful. The good ole' days were LeBron, Darius Miles, and Ricky Davis all on the team

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The Lebron excuses are almost becoming Jamarcus-like. Even James fans have to admit that this guy isnt a closer yet. Not even close. Comparing him to Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird etc at this time is a fricking joke. He shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence. He's not clutch. He showed up like a pansy this series and anyone, even the most staunch James lovers have to admit it.

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their love and blind homerism for Lebron has blinded any rational thought on the issue for most

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if Lebron wants to prove he's "the man" then have his arse come to the western conference

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I need a more specific scenario, gimme a team