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Posted on 5/4/13 at 6:33 pm to sms151t
quote:What's that one thing?
Pierce has one thing Kidd doesn't right now but Kidd is unbeaten in international play, which is huge.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 6:47 pm to Melvin
Clearly he forgot that Kidd won a title 
Posted on 5/4/13 at 6:48 pm to BoardReader
quote:
I think he's a Hall of Famer, but also vastly overrated- I can think of at least a half dozen PGs in the past 30 years that were clearly better-- Glove, Stockton, Magic, Isaiah , Nash, Parker, and several more that will have arguments before its said and done.
I can see ranking him behind those guys. Some of them probably by consensus and some of them would be ranked behind Kidd by more people.
But you didn't compare him to bad players, only other HOF players
Posted on 5/4/13 at 6:51 pm to genro
Clearly
Posted on 5/4/13 at 6:53 pm to BoardReader
quote:
I think he's a Hall of Famer, but also vastly overrated- I can think of at least a half dozen PGs in the past 30 years that were clearly better-- Glove, Stockton, Magic, Isaiah , Nash, Parker, and several more that will have arguments before its said and done.
He wasn't an elite scorer but he did everything else well. There were several years when he was the best PG in the league or at least in the discussion with one or two other guys. His biggest accomplishment was making the Nets -- the NETS -- a Finals team in a single season. The team's second best players were Kenyon Martin and rookie Richard Jefferson. That's a tremendous impact. No way Parker is better than him.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 6:57 pm to sms151t
quote:
Paul Pierce ahead of Jason Kidd? I strongly disagree with that
Way, way, way ahead of Kidd. An NBA champion, the leading scorer in the history of the Celtic franchise, a NBA Finals MVP, as many All-Star selections, virtually identical career win share number, a higher career PER.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:01 pm to sms151t
quote:
Pierce has one thing Kidd doesn't right now but Kidd is unbeaten in international play, which is huge.
He doesn't have a knife cut either
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:03 pm to mattz1122
quote:
His biggest accomplishment was making the Nets -- the NETS -- a Finals team in a single season. The team's second best players were Kenyon Martin and rookie Richard Jefferson. That's a tremendous impact. No way Parker is better than him.
When the league was at its absolute nadir of the modern era--- and Parker has been the point guard for *3* NBA championship teams, will have better career scoring numbers, and is still playing All-Star level basketball. The only way Kidd is put aheado f him is if Parker just stops playing, or completely disappears in a year or two.
Parker is definitely the weakest case of those I mentioned, but that's before getting into current players with shorter duration careers, but obviously superior accomplishments that need to play another 5 or 10 years to level out the disparity in cumulative counting stats.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:05 pm to BoardReader
quote:3 ways? Overdoing it a bit
Way, way, way ahead of Kidd. An NBA champion, the leading scorer in the history of the Celtic franchise, a NBA Finals MVP, as many All-Star selections, virtually identical career win share number, a higher career PER.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:10 pm to BoardReader
quote:
Parker has been the point guard for *3* NBA championship teams
Team stat. If Kidd played with someone like Duncan and under a coach like Pop for his entire career, I have no doubt he'd have multiple championships.
quote:
will have better career scoring numbers
And Kidd did just about everything else better. Offenses have been run through Kidd as opposed to Duncan, which is why Kidd has led the league in assists four times.
quote:
still playing All-Star level basketball
Kidd was an All-Star at age 36.
This post was edited on 5/4/13 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:20 pm to mattz1122
quote:
Team stat. If Kidd played with someone like Duncan and under a coach like Pop for his entire career, I have no doubt he'd have multiple championships.
It is a counting stat, even moreso for PGs than others. Like it or not, titles matter an immense amount.
quote:
And Kidd did just about everything else better. Offenses have been run through Kidd as opposed to Duncan, which is why Kidd has led the league in assists four times.
This is where the case for Kidd over Parker is going to have to hinge-- Kidd has to squeeze whatever he has left in the tank, and hope its enough to provide separation that the twilight years of Parker's career won't dent the differential.
quote:
still playing All-Star level basketball Kidd was an All-Star at age 36.
That was more a commentary about anticipating remaining productivity and relative decline; Parker is at the back part of his prime, but hasn't hastened into decline yet. He has a good bit of time to chip away at some of the bigger differential numbers, and to establish a reasonable amount of separation in career scoring-- and who knows, maybe even win another title-- that will put his case well ahead of Kidd's.
Then again, Kidd might tack another 3 years on to the tail end of a career that puts the counting numbers even further away, and Parker might have a catastrophic injury-- but right now, I'd definitely take Parker's case over Kidd's.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:34 pm to BoardReader
quote:
It is a counting stat, even moreso for PGs than others. Like it or not, titles matter an immense amount.
Only for the simple minded folk who can't evaluate a player beyond a team stat.
quote:
This is where the case for Kidd over Parker is going to have to hinge-- Kidd has to squeeze whatever he has left in the tank, and hope its enough to provide separation that the twilight years of Parker's career won't dent the differential.
Let me know when Parker leads the league in assists once, let alone four times. Let me know when Parker finishes second in the MVP race. Let me know when Parker leads a team to the Finals as its undisputed best player.
quote:
Then again, Kidd might tack another 3 years on to the tail end of a career that puts the counting numbers even further away, and Parker might have a catastrophic injury-- but right now, I'd definitely take Parker's case over Kidd's.
Kidd already has a full career of accomplishments. It's up to Parker to try to match them.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:40 pm to sms151t
quote:
It's not just based on NBA
He was good at Cal too.
quote:
They restrict class size
I'm pretty sure a guy who is second all-time in both assists and steals and made the All-Defensive team 9 times (4 times on the first team), isn't going to have to worry about finding a spot on a class.
quote:
They have international and woman included in class
Won't mean a damn thing.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:41 pm to mattz1122
man if Grant Hill had never broken his ankle we'd be talking about his career vs. Kidd. Forgotten greatness.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 7:44 pm to RonBurgundy
Grant and Penny should've bridged the gap between the post-MJ era and the LeBron era. With them at their peaks the league wouldn't have been so weak during that time.
Posted on 5/4/13 at 8:07 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
man if Grant Hill had never broken his ankle we'd be talking about his career vs. Kidd. Forgotten greatness.
Man I wish I could peak into some alternate universe where Grant didn't have all of those injuries. I laugh when people say LeBron is doing things that no other player has ever done.
Here are Grant's stats from his 95-98 seasons when he was 23-25:
20.2 ppg on 46.2%, 9.8 rebounds, and 6.9 assists.
21.4 ppg on 49.6%, 9.0 rebounds, and 7.3 assists.
21.1 ppg on 45.2%, 7.7 rebounds, and 6.8 assists.
This while being a near elite defender.
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