quote:
OPS+. Did you miss the part where I wrote he ranks 613th alltime in OPS+? Come on, man. He's 207th if you compare his best consecutive 10 years (i.e. his prime) against everyone else's entire career (including their decline years, but not including his). And that would certainly not be exceptional if he were a first baseman. For reference, his career OPS+ is tied with Tino Martinez.

if you take career leaders in OPS+, most of those guys didn't have the longevity Ripken did, so they didn't have as many seasons outside their prime that went into their career numbers. A very large number of those players played fewer than 15 years, many fewer than 10, in the major leagues. Ripken played in 21 seasons. I just think when you have nearly 150 years of baseball, you can't just use raw statistical data to determine a player's worth and value as a hitter. During his prime, he was among the best 20 hitters in baseball. I find that to be elite. You don't.

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Posted by Baloo

Formerly MDGeaux

Member since Sep 2003

49645 posts

Posted on 2/15/17 at 1:52 pm to lsufball19

I'm not a huge fan of WAR, though I like the Offense only version of it a lot better (most of my issues with it are that it can't rate defense properly). Cal ranked in the top 10 7 times in oWAR and led the AL once. He ranks 43rd all-time in oWAR. Sounds fairly elite.

Ripken is essentially Ernie Banks with less power but elite level defense. Banks was moved off of short when he was 30 because he was mediocre in the field while Cal had a defensive value among the best in history. Check out their 10-year prime with the knowledge Banks only played 6 years of his prime at short, moving to 1st base:

Ripken: 280/350/469, 259HR 942RBI 969R 1757H 127OPS+
Banks: 282/342/538, 355HR 1036RBI 873R 1599H 133OPS+

ETA: For a point of reference, only 30 hitters last season had an OPS+ of 127, and that was Ripken's average during his peak. The only hitter with exactly 127 OPS+ last year was Evan Longoria.

This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 1:56 pm

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Posted by barry

Location, Location, Location

Member since Aug 2006

51334 posts

Posted on 2/15/17 at 1:56 pm to dnm3305

quote:
He was basically one of the first power hitting SS that still was able to play above average defense.

This. He revolutionized the position, IMO. Before you put a light hitting dude and moved on with life.

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Posted by Speedy G

Member since Aug 2013

3984 posts

Posted on 2/15/17 at 3:27 pm to Baloo

quote:
I'm not a huge fan of WAR, though I like the Offense only version of it a lot better (most of my issues with it are that it can't rate defense properly). Cal ranked in the top 10 7 times in oWAR and led the AL once. He ranks 43rd all-time in oWAR. Sounds fairly elite.

WAR is cumulative and also, more importantly, position dependent.

quote:
For a point of reference, only 30 hitters last season had an OPS+ of 127, and that was Ripken's average during his peak. The only hitter with exactly 127 OPS+ last year was Evan Longoria.

30 is kind of a lot. The real issue is that he only eclipsed that number 3 times in his career. So, if that is the reference point, he was outside the top 30 all but 3 times. Even Longoria is not an elite hitter.

Banks was a better hitter, but Rikpen was a better fielder and overall better player.

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Posted by FightinTigersDammit