re: CA Senate unanimously passes bill allowing players to receive benefits for their likeness

Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa

Member since Nov 2015

35497 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 10:38 am to RebelTheBear

quote:
Skinner dismissed the NCAA’s warnings as empty threats and said Wednesday that legal scholars have concluded her bill is in fact constitutional.

“The NCAA has repeatedly lost anti-trust cases in courts throughout the nation,” Skinner said. “As a result, threats are their primary weapon.”

This is all true.

The NCAA relies on fear. It's all empty fear mongering.

Avery Brundage was a bum and total fraud that bullied and sold this amature ideal to the public which was against it as early as the 1930s.

Posted by moneyg

Member since Jun 2006

56480 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 10:46 am to slackster

quote:
You don't think a #9 Burrow jersey will sell like hotcakes at LSU? You're simply incorrect if you don't believe there is value in the likeness of some players.

I think you have a real misunderstanding (or else I do).

Today, the NCAA only has rules governing the eligibility of a player. If a player decides to leave school today and make money on his name, he can. It would make him ineligible, but the NCAA couldn't and wouldn't attempt to stop him.

However, if the player tried to leave school and go sell an LSU #9 jersey, they'd get sued into oblivian because the schools own the right to market that merchandise. Absent a decision by the NCAA to give players the rights to that merchandise (which I believe will never happen) we're not talking about Burrow making money as an entity of LSU. We're talking about Burrow making money selling autographs, being a spokesman for other products, etc. Furthermore, what the CA Senate passed is not attempting to strip the NCAA of having rights to market jerseys and other university merchandise.

Posted by slackster

Houston

Member since Mar 2009

84871 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:03 am to moneyg

quote:
However, if the player tried to leave school and go sell an LSU #9 jersey, they'd get sued into oblivian because the schools own the right to market that merchandise. Absent a decision by the NCAA to give players the rights to that merchandise (which I believe will never happen) we're not talking about Burrow making money as an entity of LSU. We're talking about Burrow making money selling autographs, being a spokesman for other products, etc.

Which he should absolutely be able to do. I agree wholeheartedly that this is only viable for a handful of players, but nonetheless, I don't believe they should be limited.

As far as his jersey, NCAA rules prohibit putting a player's name on the back of the jersey right now. A rule like the one in CA could open up an avenue for players to get a cut of those sales with the name on the back.

ETA - and I fully understand that no one is forcing them to play under NCAA rules, but there is no viable alternative in football right now. Basketball and baseball are a different animal.

This post was edited on 9/12/19 at 11:05 am

Posted by moneyg

Member since Jun 2006

56480 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:33 am to slackster

quote:
Which he should absolutely be able to do.

He can do it. Today. But, nobody does it because it's not worth much without eligibility within the NCAA. You used Burrow as an example. He's king right now. If he decided today to walk away from LSU in an attempt to capitalize on his name, how much do you think his endorsement or his autograph would be worth?

quote:
As far as his jersey, NCAA rules prohibit putting a player's name on the back of the jersey right now. A rule like the one in CA could open up an avenue for players to get a cut of those sales with the name on the back.

It could. The NCAA could also just decide to offer a paycheck. I doubt that its willing to do that. And, I don't see the need to do it.

But, that could end up being the middle ground. Of course, it won't take long for people like yourself to realize that there isn't that much value in it and start having the same complaints. I'll tell you now it doesn't solve any of the perceived problems.

quote:
ETA - and I fully understand that no one is forcing them to play under NCAA rules, but there is no viable alternative in football right now.

Without realizing it, you are admitting that what the NCAA brings to the table is ALL of the value. If not, there would be alternatives that offer the same (at minimum) opportunity to build individual value.

Consider the money that has been spent in marketing, infrastructure, and facilities to make the product what it is. What is that? Tens of Billions of value? More?

PLUS, the NCAA offers visibility to athletes to create value for the professional league. To the players whose likeness is potentially worth something, that in itself is extremely valuable.

One more thing, pretty much every dollar earned is being put back into the monster that is collegiate sports/universities. So, the beneficiaries of the Billions in revenue that people like yourself believe is evil, are all of the other non-revenue athletes, the fans who get nicer stadiums, the players who get nicer facilities, and sometimes even students of the universities (like in LSU's case) where the athletic department funds the general budget.

Posted by CU_Tigers4life

Georgia

Member since Aug 2013

7505 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:38 am to moneyg

quote:
Consider the money that has been spent in marketing, infrastructure, and facilities to make the product what it is. What is that? Tens of Billions of value? More?

Here a thought..The huge amounts of money being invested spent on college football is because the fans that pay these bills ike the product as it is. People will leave that product is some states fricks everything up and college football turns into a promodel

Posted by moneyg

Member since Jun 2006

56480 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:44 am to CU_Tigers4life

quote:
Here a thought..The huge amounts of money being invested spent on college football is because the fans that pay these bills ike the product as it is. People will leave that product is some states fricks everything up and college football turns into a promodel

It's absolutely a risk. The unintended consequences that get ignored by people whose feelings are hurt because they look at things in a vacuum can be catastrophic.

I remember a very popular movement to stop paying rookies as much money as they were getting in the NFL and to instead put in a pay scale. People thought it was "fairer" than paying an unproven rookie tens of millions.

Nobody wanted to listen to the fact that by removing the potential for a big payday, college football would suffer and a ton more juniors would declare because the incentive to stay would be less. That happened.

This reminds me of that.

This post was edited on 9/12/19 at 11:45 am

Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Cullman, AL

Member since Jul 2011

54846 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:44 am to CU_Tigers4life

quote:
Here a thought..The huge amounts of money being invested spent on college football is because the fans that pay these bills ike the product as it is. People will leave that product is some states fricks everything up and college football turns into a promodel

Isn’t this just so they could make money off their likeness?

That said if this passed in say South Carolina
And Trevor Lawrence was able to make money off jerseys

The Clemson fan base isn’t abandoning Clemson football

I’d use the example for a South Carolina player too but we don’t have any superstars
But even if we did.

The state of South Carolina loves their schools and they won’t stop watching

This post was edited on 9/12/19 at 11:46 am

Posted by moneyg

Member since Jun 2006

56480 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:51 am to I Bleed Garnet

quote:
Isn’t this just so they could make money off their likeness?

That said if this passed in say South Carolina
And Trevor Lawrence was able to make money off jerseys

So, you don't only want to give him the ability to make money off his likeness and name. You want him to be able to have rights to sell NCAA merchandise as well.

quote:
The Clemson fan base isn’t abandoning Clemson football

The Clemson fanbase (which is tremendous) will ABSOLUTELY abandon Clemson football if these changes resulted in a situation where, due to the money that could now be spent, shifted all of the talent to the list of bigtime universities.

Clemson is just an example. Right now, they are capable of not only competing, but thriving. How much money would Texas be willing to spend? Notre Dame? USC? Alabama? Florida? Ohio State? Michigan? etc.

What if it became truly impossible for Clemson to get the type of players it can now?

Posted by CU_Tigers4life

Georgia

Member since Aug 2013

7505 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:52 am to I Bleed Garnet

If it were just that I think most would be fine, but were are talking about allowing agents to sign, being paid (or should I say overpaid) for endorsements like speaking engagement, autograph sigings, etc..

If you think there is under the table corruption now just wait until something like this occurs.

Can you imagine a player being late for practice because he ran long shooting a commercial..the coach wants to discipline him and the kid gets his agent and lawyer involved? That's where this would be headed

This post was edited on 9/12/19 at 11:53 am

Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Cullman, AL

Member since Jul 2011

54846 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:55 am to CU_Tigers4life

quote:
Can you imagine a player being late for practice because he ran long shooting a commercial..the coach wants to discipline him and the kid gets his agent and lawyer involved? That's where this would be headed

I mean if it goes like the NFL, they fine him
Look at the AB saga. They fined him and voided his guaranteed money and then was cut

I just don’t think in our state we’d abandon the football teams
It’s literally all we got and are way too passionate

Posted by CU_Tigers4life

Georgia

Member since Aug 2013

7505 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:56 am to moneyg

quote:
So, you don't only want to give him the ability to make money off his likeness and name. You want him to be able to have rights to sell NCAA merchandise as well.

quote:
The Clemson fan base isn’t abandoning Clemson football

The Clemson fanbase (which is tremendous) will ABSOLUTELY abandon Clemson football if these changes resulted in a situation where, due to the money that could now be spent, shifted all of the talent to the list of bigtime universities.

Clemson is just an example. Right now, they are capable of not only competing, but thriving. How much money would Texas be willing to spend? Notre Dame? USC? Alabama? Florida? Ohio State? Michigan? etc.

What if it became truly impossible for Clemson to get the type of players it can now?

This...When the college game becomes more about the players than the school I'm out just like I think it would be for a lot of people.

This post was edited on 9/12/19 at 11:58 am

Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Cullman, AL

Member since Jul 2011

54846 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:57 am to moneyg

quote:
The Clemson fanbase (which is tremendous) will ABSOLUTELY abandon Clemson football if these changes resulted in a situation where, due to the money that could now be spent, shifted all of the talent to the list of bigtime universities.

Clemson is just an example. Right now, they are capable of not only competing, but thriving. How much money would Texas be willing to spend? Notre Dame? USC? Alabama? Florida? Ohio State? Michigan? etc.

What if it became truly impossible for Clemson to get the type of players it can now?

So they’d be really bad.

South Carolina literally had 0-11 and 1-10 seasons and still packed the place

It’s more than just the game in our state.
It’s a social event.

Fans wouldn’t stop showing up

Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Cullman, AL

Member since Jul 2011

54846 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 11:58 am to CU_Tigers4life

quote:
When the college game becomes more about the players than the schoo

I honestly think we are already there the players just aren’t being monetarily compensated for it

Especially at the bigger programs

More and more of the top notch kids that go to the big schools care more about making it to the next level , not winning a Bowl game or conference title

Posted by CU_Tigers4life

Georgia

Member since Aug 2013

7505 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 12:00 pm to I Bleed Garnet

quote:

I mean if it goes like the NFL, they fine him
Look at the AB saga. They fined him and voided his guaranteed money and then was cut

How can you fine a kid? The NFL has a collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Players Association. There is no equivalent I college. You simply can't apply the NFL to the College model without destroying college football.

Posted by MidnightVibe

Member since Feb 2015

7885 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 12:00 pm to CU_Tigers4life

quote:
You can call it whatever you want.

No, you should call it what it is, and not what it isn't.

Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Cullman, AL

Member since Jul 2011

54846 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 12:03 pm to CU_Tigers4life

quote:
How can you fine a kid? The NFL has a collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Players Association. There is no equivalent I college. You simply can't apply the NFL to the College model without destroying college football.

I meant more of suspend him
Kid misses practice he gets suspended

I’m sure if this did pass (don’t think it will) before anything occurs the kid would sign something to say “i can make money for appearances but my scholarship says i need to be on time for Practice, weight room etc”

This post was edited on 9/12/19 at 12:04 pm

Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Cullman, AL

Member since Jul 2011

54846 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 12:04 pm to MidnightVibe

quote:
No, you should call it what it is, and not what it isn't.

You seem to grasp what it is.
What exactly does this bill say.

And just straight forward. Not what you think it will evolve into etc

Posted by CU_Tigers4life

Georgia

Member since Aug 2013

7505 posts

Posted on 9/12/19 at 12:12 pm to I Bleed Garnet

quote:
I’m sure if this did pass (don’t think it will) before anything occurs the kid would sign something to say “i can make money for appearances but my scholarship says i need to be on time for Practice, weight room etc”

Oh..I think California will pass it and that is when the shitstorm begins. Hopefully the governor will veto it but he won't and then it will get tied up in the courts for years.