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Tax loss harvesting by rotating ETFs

Posted on 10/25/18 at 10:42 am
Posted by Negatiger1986
Inside the Leather
Member since Sep 2010
435 posts
Posted on 10/25/18 at 10:42 am
There are a lot of ETFs offered by Vanguard, iShares, etc that are designed to track the same index and are composed of basically the same blend of stocks. At a time like this when stocks are down, would it make sense to sell a Vanguard ETF and buy the equivalent iShares ETF to harvest the loss while maintaining equal exposure to the index? How far can you stretch the meaning of "substantially identical" or however the rule is worded?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421722 posts
Posted on 10/25/18 at 1:17 pm to
i may be mistaken, but what would this actually achieve? if your value is X and you buy in at X, then your basis will, effectively, be the same. are you saying your investment is already a net negative somehow? how long did you hold it before the loss?

*ETA: even if you're at a loss, you're buying in at a lower value so your basis will be lower than your expectation, raising your tax liability on the new investment. you think you're about to pick another loser? i think the actual losses will hurt yo more than whatever tax savings you're imagining
This post was edited on 10/25/18 at 1:18 pm
Posted by iAmBatman
The Batcave
Member since Mar 2011
12382 posts
Posted on 10/25/18 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

even if you're at a loss, you're buying in at a lower value so your basis will be lower than your expectation, raising your tax liability on the new investment. you think you're about to pick another loser?


You would be harvesting losses to offset gains that you've already made which will be taxed. Yes, in the future, your gains would be higher in the stock (or ETF) that you just harvested but if you are trying to minimize the current year tax bill then it really doesn't come into play.
Posted by Negatiger1986
Inside the Leather
Member since Sep 2010
435 posts
Posted on 10/25/18 at 5:26 pm to
The whole idea is to minimize my short term tax bill. Specifically, I am looking at my holdings in Vanguard's Materials ETF, VAW. It is comprised of reputable large cap companies like Dow DuPont, Praxair, and Shermin Williams. This thing has gotten hammered 15-20% over the last couple of weeks and has pushed me into negative territory relative to my initial investment. So if I sell VAW and buy IYM (the iShares equivalent of VAW - it holds the same companies but in slightly different percentages), I could take a near term tax loss while maintaining exposure to that sector. Not really about picking winners or losers but about minimizing taxes while maintaining sector diversification in my portfolio. While I agree that you end up paying the taxes when the investment appreciates, I'm fairly certain that research suggests this approach of taking near-term tax losses juices tax-adjusted returns over time.

So my question is whether or not this would violate the wash-sale rule?
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
25455 posts
Posted on 10/25/18 at 5:32 pm to
I understand the premise, but unless you are uber wealthy and were talking alot of money, it's not really doing that much for you. You can deduct 3k per year of ordinary income and carry an excess forward 5 years (I think).

This strategy makes way more sense for businesses where losses aren't capped
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421722 posts
Posted on 10/25/18 at 7:14 pm to
quote:

You would be harvesting losses to offset gains that you've already made which will be taxed.

well the gains must be in another stream of assets

he needs to be more clear because what you can deduct, how much you can deduct, and the various tax rates will make a big difference
Posted by ridlejs
Member since Aug 2011
398 posts
Posted on 10/25/18 at 7:40 pm to
The rule is very vague and hasn't really been updated since it was created in the 30s or 40s- way before ETF indexing. To be conservative you want to use ETFs that track different indexes. For instance VOO and VV are both US large cap ETFs and have a correlation of .99 but track different indexes. A great resource is ETF.com. Just search for your original ETF and similar ETFs will be listed. You can see which underlying indexes are used to find TLH equivalents.

There are alot of misconceptions surrounding TLH but the short of it is you are not avoiding taxes simply deferring them.
Posted by Negatiger1986
Inside the Leather
Member since Sep 2010
435 posts
Posted on 10/26/18 at 9:19 am to
Great advice, thanks. Looks like there are 9 ETFs that focus on the US Basic Materials sector and surprisingly NONE of them track the same index. Perhaps that's not a coincidence - they don't want to exclude TLHers from buying their ETF because it tracked the same index as a previous holding.

Anyway, looks like the SPDR funds have the next lowest load after Vanguard. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger.
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