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Started By
Message
re: Toliver
Posted on 5/27/09 at 11:29 pm to rickyh
Posted on 5/27/09 at 11:29 pm to rickyh
quote:U don't get it! They are proven, because they developed very quickly or the team had no depth and were forced to develop quickly. Quit being a dumbass!
Maybe later but he is not in the class of the other great ones who are proven.
This post was edited on 5/27/09 at 11:30 pm
1
Posted on 5/27/09 at 11:35 pm to tigerjake
quote:Yeah, I guess Matt Flynn never lived up to expectations because it took him 5 years to become a full-time starter. And Michael Clayton must have been a complete bust because he never even made All-SEC until his 3rd year.
They are proven, because they developed very quickly or the team had no depth and were forced to develop quickly.
Posted on 5/27/09 at 11:36 pm to King Joey
Michael Clayton had 1k receiving yards as a true Frosh
Posted on 5/27/09 at 11:44 pm to aibo synthetic
quote:I was mockingly referring to another poster's suggestion that Michael Crabtree's 134 catch, 1962 yard, 22 touchdown, Biletnikoff-winning Redshirt Freshman season was the standard for "living up to expectations."
Michael Clayton had 1k receiving yards as a true Frosh
Obviously Michael Clayton lived up to AND far exceeded anything remotely resembling reasonable expectations. That Tolliver has failed to match his achievements in a far more competitive situation is hardly a reflection that Tolliver has someone failed to live up to expectations. Putting up major numbers with Rohan Davey throwing the ball, a Biletnikoff-winner on the other side, and competing with Ed Dangerfield, Jack Hunt and Jerel Myers was a much easier task than putting up those numbers behind Doucet, LaFell and Byrd. And, as mentioned before, Clayton is a preposterous standard for measuring whether or not a player "lived up to expectations." Anyone whose "expectation" for Clayton (or any other player) equals Clayton's actual achievements is flatly ridiculous.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 12:04 am to King Joey
TT is certainly a good player but isn't out shining anyone out there by any means and probably wont get drafted at this rate
Posted on 5/28/09 at 12:19 am to aibo synthetic
quote:
Michael Clayton had 1k receiving yards as a true Frosh
No he didn't.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 12:23 am to HDTigers
quote:
TT is certainly a good player but isn't out shining anyone out there by any means and probably wont get drafted at this rate
Byrd got drafted and he did not have spectacular years. He only played two years at LSU.
Toliver should have a pretty good Qb situation over the next two years. He will play #2 to Lafell. He should have a good season and be looking at being the guy in 2010. He has plenty of time to live up to his recruitment ranking and get in a position to get drafted.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 12:27 am to HDTigers
quote:I'd say he's outshining Chris Mitchell, Jared Mitchell, Ricky Dixon and R.J. Jackson. In each of his two seasons, he's had over 100 more receiving yards than anyone else on the team not named Doucet, LaFell, Byrd or Dickson. And he has more TD catches over those two years than anyone else but those guys. So like people have been saying, he's lived up to the expectations that he would be good enough to contribute behind the stars until the time came for him to step up and become a star himself.
TT is certainly a good player but isn't out shining anyone out there by any means
Posted on 5/28/09 at 12:42 am to ForeLSU
quote:
I've heard TT had some issues adapting his first couple of years, but Porter has taken him under his wing and he appears to be finding his way...
Larry Porter coaches running backs, not wide receivers.
Now that you mention it, Porter could probably do a better technical coaching job with the receivers than McCarthy has. I think a lot of the inconsistancy, drops and slow development of the WR's is directly related to coaching. Great used car salesmen (Recruiters) don't always make great teaching coaches.......
Posted on 5/28/09 at 12:52 am to King Joey
quote:
But he still hasnt lived up to his sky high expectations
quote:
n what way? What was he expected to do behind Doucet, LaFell and Byrd, and sharing duties with Holliday, the Mitchell's, etc., that he has not done? And by whom?
Thats the problem. If he was a superstar he would not be splitting time with the Mitchells. He will probably have a big year this year though.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 1:00 am to ADAMATDAPARTY
quote:I guess if that's your expectation, then yeah he's fallen short. I just don't think many people expect top rated blue chip recruits to take every single snap available. I guess Joe McKnight failed to live up to that expectation, too?
Thats the problem. If he was a superstar he would not be splitting time with the Mitchells
It's all subjective, of course. I just don't think it is reasonable for people to have expectations of a player in Tolliver's situation to produce significantly greater results than he has. Obviously some have done it before, but that doesn't make an expectation reasonable. Basing expectations of the future on the selected best results of the past is just not reasonable. Hopes, yes; anticipations, yes; expectations; not so much.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 5:21 am to FlowMaster
IMO, last year just wasn't a good year for any of our WR's. Not that they didn't play well, but the QB's woes have been well documented so I'll just leave it alone.
I don't think he saw the field enough his freshman year. When he played, he played well IMO. I remember vs. Tulane Jared Mitchell dropped at least 4 easy passes while Toliver sat the bench.
I don't think he saw the field enough his freshman year. When he played, he played well IMO. I remember vs. Tulane Jared Mitchell dropped at least 4 easy passes while Toliver sat the bench.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 5:29 am to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:Ummmm....Lafell?
IMO, last year just wasn't a good year for any of our WR's.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 5:50 am to tigerjake
quote:
Ummmm....Lafell?
Ummmm....did you read the rest of the post?
quote:
IMO, last year just wasn't a good year for any of our WR's. Not that they didn't play well, but the QB's woes have been well documented so I'll just leave it alone.
The WR's PLAYED well for the most part, but it wasn't a good year for them b/c they had freshmen at QB.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 6:48 am to Fgiord
quote:
Pretty hard i guess. Coming out of high school i remember people talking about him making an immediate impact his first year and all this jazz.
People are idiots then. Dude was rail-thin and coming onto a team with Doucet, LaFell and JUCO xfer Byrd in front of him. Plus, if I remember correctly, he came from a mostly running/option team. He was pretty raw coming in.
Sometimes 5 stars means immediate impact. Sometimes 5 stars means potential. In Toliver's case, it was all potential.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 8:04 am to TigerBandAlumnus82
quote:
Larry Porter coaches running backs, not wide receivers.
when I said "Porter taking him under his wing", I wasn't referring to football skills/development...but off the field stuff.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 8:13 am to Sammich
quote:
no he didn't
yeah, I just made that up.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 8:22 am to HDTigers
quote:
TT is certainly a good player but isn't out shining anyone out there by any means and probably wont get drafted at this rate
It's amazing to me the thick headedness going on on this thread right now.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 8:27 am to aibo synthetic
He still might wind up being great, but if you can't see that he hasn't produced like the typical 5-star WR, you're kidding yourselves. LSU has not had great depth at WR the last 2 years--the situation has been ripe for somebody to step up, but TT hasn't done that yet. Would any of you making excuses for his lack of production not be disappointed if Rueban Randle doesn't have 500 yards receiving by his JR year?
And WR is not the same as RB or QB. There are almost always 3 on the field at one time.
And WR is not the same as RB or QB. There are almost always 3 on the field at one time.
Posted on 5/28/09 at 8:46 am to Hot Carl
quote:
He still might wind up being great, but if you can't see that he hasn't produced like the typical 5-star WR, you're kidding yourselves. LSU has not had great depth at WR the last 2 years--the situation has been ripe for somebody to step up, but TT hasn't done that yet.
Step up in front of who? His first two years he had 10-249-3 and 22-257-1. His second year while still playing as basically the 4th option on the field, his numbers improved. Early Doucet's numbers were similar. 18-257-2 and 26-389-5. Doucet was lucky enough to have JaMarcus Russell at QB in his second year and just 2 WR's ahead of him in Davis and Bowe. While Toliver had a true freshman and a struggling Jarrett Lee. Should a prototypical 5* WR should have jumped a slot WR in Green?
quote:
Would any of you making excuses for his lack of production not be disappointed if Rueban Randle doesn't have 500 yards receiving by his JR year?
Depends on how the WR's that will be in front of him pan out. If they are good enough to be on the field and make plays, why would anyone be upset? Because of his 5* status? If he's good enough and knows the system, sure...put him on the field. But just because he was highly touted out of high school doesn't mean I want him on the field even though he doesn't know the playbook or the strength to play in the SEC.
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