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re: The measuring stick: Saban
Posted on 11/21/13 at 8:15 pm to CharlesLSU
Posted on 11/21/13 at 8:15 pm to CharlesLSU
I Love this board. There is so much failed logic it is intertaining. 
0
Posted on 11/21/13 at 9:08 pm to diehardfan
quote:
f Les had followed DiNardo would he be as successful?
If Saban stayed after 2004, would 2005-2008 be any better?
LSU had only 13 recruiting slots to give out in 2004 (or 2005). Ryan Perrilloux was heading to Texas and so on. In 2004, LSU got awful lucky in a few games too.
Dunno if Saban would have done any better in 2005 or 2006. In fact, he may have bolted to the NFL after 2006 and left the program in not so great shape.
You can play this game all day.
Posted on 11/21/13 at 9:26 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
Much of what I read here on Les' ineptitude is fueled by a consistent comparison to Nick.
Les is a great coach and a really good guy. He's a couple breaks from multiple championships. I'm a Bama fan so I know my opinion isn't always welcome but other coaches really don't matter. If he hadn't lost so many guys in the draft, then Cam's offense plus the normal defense would probably be the best team in the country. I believe good Tiger fans know he is classy and a winner. You guys are going to be great as long as he's there.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 5:16 am to geauxnavybeatbama
quote:
You're gonna compare your life to theirs and hope that your winning the breakup.
What sad fricks do this?
Posted on 11/22/13 at 6:08 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
Lastly, many of us here need to stop fooling ourselves into believing LSU has the best talent of any other team in the nation. We would all be surprised to have an honest discussion with peer coaches on the true level of LSU's talent. Hey, is it elite talent? Much of it, yes. BUT, there are many competitors (i.e. Auburn) who develop a similar level of resources.
I agree. There are about 15 teams in the nation that are very very close in talent from year-to-year. That being said, Bama has been a notch above for the past few years. By that, I mean a notch above LSU and all others. The gap may be lessening in the next year or two...
Posted on 11/22/13 at 7:26 am to CharlesLSU
This is a great post.
while this is 100% true, the sabanistas will not ever listen to reason. they want saban. at times, i have trouble believing many of these posters are LSU fans and suspect they are bama fans posting on here.
talent is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to objectively measure. sure, it is obvious that bama has more talent than LSU right now; esp on the lines of scrimmage. also, some very talented players simply do not make the jump to SEC level football. they are teenagers when evaluated in high school and have not even physically matured much less emotionally. look at the 5 star recruits USC had on their roster and the underachievement they orchestrated. well, just maybe they weren't really as good as the "evaluators" thought. it is not anywhere close to being a science. look how many guys MLB has to sign just to field of team of 8 plus pitchers.
so, imo, some players on our team either were over rated in high school or simply have not yet made the transition. also, i suspect there is an issue of "heart" with more than one of our starters. measuring heart is more uncertain than talent even (in high school).
over the long haul, LSU is fine and will compete for SEC and NC titles more than 50% of the time. Nick Saban is better than that and it is unfortunate the little bastard went to bama.
quote:
I would contend basing a comparison with what will likely be the greatest HC in the history of the NCAA is rather unfair.
while this is 100% true, the sabanistas will not ever listen to reason. they want saban. at times, i have trouble believing many of these posters are LSU fans and suspect they are bama fans posting on here.
quote:
Lastly, many of us here need to stop fooling ourselves into believing LSU has the best talent of any other team in the nation.
talent is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to objectively measure. sure, it is obvious that bama has more talent than LSU right now; esp on the lines of scrimmage. also, some very talented players simply do not make the jump to SEC level football. they are teenagers when evaluated in high school and have not even physically matured much less emotionally. look at the 5 star recruits USC had on their roster and the underachievement they orchestrated. well, just maybe they weren't really as good as the "evaluators" thought. it is not anywhere close to being a science. look how many guys MLB has to sign just to field of team of 8 plus pitchers.
so, imo, some players on our team either were over rated in high school or simply have not yet made the transition. also, i suspect there is an issue of "heart" with more than one of our starters. measuring heart is more uncertain than talent even (in high school).
over the long haul, LSU is fine and will compete for SEC and NC titles more than 50% of the time. Nick Saban is better than that and it is unfortunate the little bastard went to bama.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 9:31 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
Much of what I read here on Les' ineptitude is fueled by a consistent comparison to Nick.
Spot on.
quote:
Now, I would contend basing a comparison with what will likely be the greatest HC in the history of the NCAA is rather unfair. More to the point, no one (esp. Les) pushed Saban out of LSU for Les. He left LSU on his own and some people can't see this misguided animosity as it camouflages itself.
I think it is fair to compare Miles to Saban, but it does elicit more emotional responses than it would if Saban had never coached LSU.
quote:
I would say the fairest pedigrees by which to compare Les are along the lines of Mark Richt, HBC, Muschamp, Sumlin, etc. Using a more logical (and equitable) set of glasses likely shows Les for what he is: A very good coach.
And I would argue comparing Miles to Saban shows the same thing: Les Miles is a very good coach.
quote:
Lastly, many of us here need to stop fooling ourselves into believing LSU has the best talent of any other team in the nation. We would all be surprised to have an honest discussion with peer coaches on the true level of LSU's talent. Hey, is it elite talent? Much of it, yes. BUT, there are many competitors (i.e. Auburn) who develop a similar level of resources.
There's a lot of elite talent on the team... young elite talent this year on defense.
quote:
An honest question, say Les calls perfect games all year, what would be the record? In all honesty, only one game (Ole Miss) is likely on coaching rather than talent.
8-2
This post was edited on 11/22/13 at 9:34 am
Posted on 11/22/13 at 9:50 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
talent is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to objectively measure. sure, it is obvious that bama has more talent than LSU right now; esp on the lines of scrimmage. also, some very talented players simply do not make the jump to SEC level football. they are teenagers when evaluated in high school and have not even physically matured much less emotionally. look at the 5 star recruits USC had on their roster and the underachievement they orchestrated. well, just maybe they weren't really as good as the "evaluators" thought. it is not anywhere close to being a science.
exactly!
I worked in LSU recruiting back in the day and the process is nothing more than educated gambling.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 10:57 am to arwicklu
quote:Bama fan, of course you want him to stay because that means you own the west for the foreseeable future.
I believe good Tiger fans know he is classy and a winner. You guys are going to be great as long as he's there.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 11:03 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
.....then by that logic, hes better than Saban. Considering he has had a better record at LSU. Amirite?
My contention is Les is doomed to always fall short unless he beats saban on the way to an SEC and NCAA championship.
Understand this, I am not happy with the current state of affairs and think Les needs to get it straight. Im just trying to be fair.
No, you aren't right. By that logic, Miles owes some of his success to Saban.
Miles is a decent coach that followed one of the best ever and has benefited because of it.
The bottom line is that no one measures up to Saban but Miles did follow him at LSU and will always be compared to him, especially while Saban is coaching at a division rival.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 11:34 am to diehardfan
Yes Les would have been sucessful since he wasnt stuck with denardos back field defensive coach and espn would have been in Les miles 's back pocket not nickies !
Posted on 11/22/13 at 11:41 am to AlwysATgr
quote:
What cripples Les is that he operates from a "secure victory first" paradigm on a game-by-game basis.
no shite? color me stupid but i pretty much thought all coaches did this; at least all successful ones.
quote:
And while this may secure victory over many teams, it constrains dominance and excellence.
this statement is absurd. if winning the game constrains excellence that must mean losing the game encourages excellence. your theory, while new, is full of holes.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 12:04 pm to CharlesLSU
Bottom line is Miles earned his reputation with his "haters" BEFORE Saban got to Bama. Regardless of the record, people know that we lost games every year that we shouldn't have lost and rarely looked great even in the wins. "A win is a win", but they don't all say the same thing about the coach. The team very rarely looked like the team of a great coach.
I assume you're a Miles defender, and even you are now saying he's just a "very good coach". That may be true, but LSU circa 2004 wanted to be great, had the fan support, facilities, and money to be great, and needed a great coach to make it happen. Miles never was and never will be that great coach. We shouldn't be paying him over $4 million to "very good" this program into the middle of the SEC pack.
I assume you're a Miles defender, and even you are now saying he's just a "very good coach". That may be true, but LSU circa 2004 wanted to be great, had the fan support, facilities, and money to be great, and needed a great coach to make it happen. Miles never was and never will be that great coach. We shouldn't be paying him over $4 million to "very good" this program into the middle of the SEC pack.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 12:08 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
this statement is absurd. if winning the game constrains excellence that must mean losing the game encourages excellence. your theory, while new, is full of holes.
Just need to broaden your field-of-view some and the "holes" will disappear.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 12:29 pm to uway
quote:
I assume you're a Miles defender, and even you are now saying he's just a "very good coach". That may be true, but LSU circa 2004 wanted to be great, had the fan support, facilities, and money to be great, and needed a great coach to make it happen. Miles never was and never will be that great coach. We shouldn't be paying him over $4 million to "very good" this program into the middle of the SEC pack.
Difference between very good and great are the breaks. We won a NC in '07 and played for another in '11. That's beating the odds, and if you don't think so then you need a new perspective on things. No team is entitled to those results.
There's 126 college football teams competing for the NC. To have two chances to win one in the course of 8 years is outstanding.
When you find a coach than can win you 10 games a year, you stick with him because you'll be in position to win a NC when the breaks fall in your favor.
Posted on 11/22/13 at 12:35 pm to CharlesLSU
SVP talking about this right now
Posted on 11/22/13 at 12:52 pm to SpeckledTiger
quote:
if DiNardo had followed Saban, would he have been as successful at Miles? Very likely not. Your counterpoint is flawed to say the least.
They both seem to have a problem in hiring great assistants. When Jimbo left, who replaced him?
When Watts left who replaced him?
When Bo Pelini left, who replaced him?
Tepper = Maleveto
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