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Posted on 11/11/15 at 8:57 am to LSU_Saints_Hornets
quote:I'm here. 41 of 60 on short passes that includes dump offs is not very good. You can talk about dropped passes all you want, but every QB has dropped passes.
I wish tigerinthehollow and mmcgrath would stumble across this thread.
Is Harris a failure? No, obviously not. But he needs to get better at the short and intermediate passes... much better. I can't see why anyone would want to deny that.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 9:03 am to mmcgrath
Sat. loss was the entire team. Harris had to run for his life the whole game & was hammered every time he had to pass. 
Posted on 11/11/15 at 9:18 am to mmcgrath
quote:
I'm here. 41 of 60 on short passes that includes dump offs is not very good.
41/60 is 68%. If the drops were caught, he would be 49/60, 81.6%. That's actually very good. And sure, every QB has passes dropped. But that's not the QBs fault, he did his job. That's literally why people keep track of dropped passes as a stat.
We've had more drops in the short passing game than Harris has had inaccurate passes. The WRs are responsible for more incompletions in the short passing game than Harris is.
This post was edited on 11/11/15 at 9:29 am
Posted on 11/11/15 at 9:25 am to Canwoodtiger
quote:bullshite
Its a combo of both lack of touch and WRs stone hands. Some of us have seen his rockets on short passes that are just too hard to catch. And we have seen drops on very catchable passes. This instills lack of confidence in the passing game by the coaches.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 11:07 am to 1badboy
quote:A) this thread is about every game before Bama, his stats would be way worse if you include that game. B) he had plenty of time to throw on most of his passes. There was more pressure than usual, bit you should pay attention to what QB's on other teams deal with sometime.
Sat. loss was the entire team. Harris had to run for his life the whole game & was hammered every time he had to pass.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 11:11 am to KG5989
quote:We don't count drops and that still isn't good. A lot of those passes are dump offs or the 1 foot jet sweep pass.
41/60 is 68%. If the drops were caught, he would be 49/60, 81.6%. That's actually very good.
quote:Wrong. There are even several plays where the short pass is open and Harris never sees it.
We've had more drops in the short passing game than Harris has had inaccurate passes. The WRs are responsible for more incompletions in the short passing game than Harris is.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 12:16 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
I'm here. 41 of 60 on short passes that includes dump offs is not very good.
68% is not good??????
Ok you are fricking retarded.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 1:11 pm to mmcgrath
I didn't count the 1 foot jet sweeps for this. And there were only a handful of dump offs. Ai you're wrong again with that.
No I'm not. When Harris throws short, he's only had 7 inaccurate throws. Our WRs have 8 drops. Only 7 inaccurate passes on short passes. The WRs are responsible for more incompletions on short passes than Harris is. And if you are counting throws he doesn't make, then how the hell can you you NOT count throws he actually makes where the WR drops the ball? People bitch that Harris can't make those short throws and sucks at them, not that he doesn't see it enough. And they are wrong in both counts.
And that's another flaw with our passing attack. It's either every goes deep or everyone stays short. Rarely do we have all WRs running routes at different levels.
Don't sit there and tell me that Harris is not good at short passes when he's actually pretty good and efficient at it. I watched every throw Harris has made this season and he's not the problem with the short passing game.
quote:
Wrong
No I'm not. When Harris throws short, he's only had 7 inaccurate throws. Our WRs have 8 drops. Only 7 inaccurate passes on short passes. The WRs are responsible for more incompletions on short passes than Harris is. And if you are counting throws he doesn't make, then how the hell can you you NOT count throws he actually makes where the WR drops the ball? People bitch that Harris can't make those short throws and sucks at them, not that he doesn't see it enough. And they are wrong in both counts.
And that's another flaw with our passing attack. It's either every goes deep or everyone stays short. Rarely do we have all WRs running routes at different levels.
Don't sit there and tell me that Harris is not good at short passes when he's actually pretty good and efficient at it. I watched every throw Harris has made this season and he's not the problem with the short passing game.
This post was edited on 11/11/15 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 11/11/15 at 1:26 pm to KG5989
While I appreciate your efforts here, it only tells us how many times Harris decided to throw it short. Go back and watch the passes again. How many times did he throw it deep, when there was an underneath receiver? How many times did we have a receiver in the middle of the field and he threw it to the outside or long? How many pass plays over 10 yards were plays on 3rd down that required is to throw it beyond that distance? It is extremely easy to make a stat appear however you want it to.
Not saying there is no merit to what you posted...just that it doesn't tell us anything about the play calling...it just tells us about the read that Harris made.
Not saying there is no merit to what you posted...just that it doesn't tell us anything about the play calling...it just tells us about the read that Harris made.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 1:33 pm to Fratigerguy
Harris makes the right reads most of them time. When he throws deep, the play is designed to go deep and most of the guys we have going out for passes are going deep. Like I just said, we rarely have guys running routes at diff levels of the field. And this goes back with Mett his SR year with Cameron too. It was the same vertical passing attack without that many short routes. Think I'm Metts year... We rarely went underneath with him at QB as well. And moody said he makes the wrong decisions and is just always throwing to WRs running routes medium to deep in length. It's because Cameron wants to attack the D with a vertical passing attack.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 1:34 pm to KG5989
My question is, why the hell are we only throwing 6 short passes a game? That number should be around 15
Posted on 11/11/15 at 1:42 pm to TampaTiger22
Probably because Harris only averages 15 pass attempts a game, period! lol
Posted on 11/11/15 at 1:57 pm to KG5989
quote:I appreciate that.
I didn't count the 1 foot jet sweeps for this. And there were only a handful of dump offs. Ai you're wrong again with that.
How many of your "drops" would meet the definition below?:
quote:LINK
Hank Gargiulo of ESPN Stats & Information passed along the written standard our game charters rely upon to reduce subjectivity.
This standard says drops are "incomplete passes where the receiver SHOULD have caught the pass with ORDINARY effort."
Basically, we're talking about blatant drops, not the ones where your old man leans over and says anything that grazed the receiver anywhere was a drop in his day.
"Only use this if the receiver is 100 percent at fault and no one else can be blamed for the incompletion," ESPN tells its game charters. "Pass interference that wasn't called/passes thrown just outside the receiver's reach, etc., are NOT drops."
Posted on 11/11/15 at 2:00 pm to TampaTiger22
quote:
My question is, why the hell are we only throwing 6 short passes a game? That number should be around 15
because teams are "stacking the box" remember?
when everyone is in the box and the WRs have no safety help, guess what? the right read is to go over the top
Posted on 11/11/15 at 2:04 pm to KG5989
A nice factual based post. I appreciate that. I question why you left off the bama stats though.
I agree the receivers job is to catch all balls they put both hands on and a large portion of balls they get a single hand on regardless of the power the ball it thrown with. But you have to admit that hard thrown balls at short yardage are significantly more difficult to catch. Although, you make a comparison to NFL receivers, some times a teams' college depth chart is not full of next man up NFL players.
Additionally, it should be recognized that throwing over the middle with short passes (which you correctly identify as a good method to quickly disperse the ball against a dominate defensive line) puts the ball at risk. The risk is elevated when the ball is thrown hard and fast and thus in a flatter trajectory. Harris is not short but when your line is 2 to 4 inches taller, as is the defensive line you are facing, it makes things difficult.
Now add the potential for turnovers when the QB tends to throw behind receivers and things get interesting from a coaching standpoint. Those throws are the ones that are most often intercepted as the receiver is out of position to even bat it down.
I have faith BH and our receivers are getting better but they are not an efficient short yardage run and gun passing offense at current. Remove the SC game and the numbers are 22/41 or 53%. FWIW SC has passing defense ranked at #79 where bama is #6
You know our offense struggled against a REALLY good defense right? LINK
I agree the receivers job is to catch all balls they put both hands on and a large portion of balls they get a single hand on regardless of the power the ball it thrown with. But you have to admit that hard thrown balls at short yardage are significantly more difficult to catch. Although, you make a comparison to NFL receivers, some times a teams' college depth chart is not full of next man up NFL players.
Additionally, it should be recognized that throwing over the middle with short passes (which you correctly identify as a good method to quickly disperse the ball against a dominate defensive line) puts the ball at risk. The risk is elevated when the ball is thrown hard and fast and thus in a flatter trajectory. Harris is not short but when your line is 2 to 4 inches taller, as is the defensive line you are facing, it makes things difficult.
Now add the potential for turnovers when the QB tends to throw behind receivers and things get interesting from a coaching standpoint. Those throws are the ones that are most often intercepted as the receiver is out of position to even bat it down.
I have faith BH and our receivers are getting better but they are not an efficient short yardage run and gun passing offense at current. Remove the SC game and the numbers are 22/41 or 53%. FWIW SC has passing defense ranked at #79 where bama is #6
You know our offense struggled against a REALLY good defense right? LINK
Posted on 11/11/15 at 2:09 pm to Salmon
While WRs are expected to catch anything that they can get their hands on, it's up to the QB to throw a catchable ball. Anyone who has tried to catch a ball with too much on it in close proximity from a college level arm will agree. Passes should be thrown with the velocity that the play dictates.
Posted on 11/11/15 at 5:38 pm to Salmon
Says who? WR screens work great against a stacked box. So do slants . What is our completion percentage going "over the top" ? Not to good. Tom Brady makes a living throwing short. I am not saying BH is TB, but BH can make basic reads and he has a very good arm to throw short. We run one WR sets and still throw to the one WR, even though he is double covered. That makes no damn sense.
We stacked the box and Coker killed us on short throws. Stacking the box doesn't mean squat. We are one dimensional and that's why we don't throw short.
We stacked the box and Coker killed us on short throws. Stacking the box doesn't mean squat. We are one dimensional and that's why we don't throw short.
This post was edited on 11/11/15 at 5:41 pm
Posted on 11/11/15 at 7:33 pm to TampaTiger22
On the Interception to start the second half, why were the WRs within 5 yards of each other anyhow? Or did I miss this?
Posted on 11/11/15 at 8:31 pm to KG5989
quote:
Unfortunately, we had a lot of whiffed blocks the entire night. Haven't seen our OL get completely dominated like that. Ever
Yes you have, unless you started watching LSU February 2011.
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