re: Proof that Chris Jackson was the greatest college player (other than Pete)

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You know basketball better than Shaq?

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I know Shaq was a better college player than Chris Jackson. If Shaq thinks otherwise, he is wrong, regardless of how good of a player he was.

Maybe you'd like to actually answer some of my points, instead of just trying to constantly derail the discussion. So answer this: Why do you think that Shaq's overwhelming defense and rebounding advantages are not enough to overcome Jackson's scoring advantage?

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So all things considered, Chris Jackson was a better college player than Shaq. I know it, Shaq knows it. You know it-- but refuse to admit-- hence you are single.

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1) I'm not single, not sure why you're so obsessed with my sex life though.
2) If you think ANY woman, anywhere on the planet, makes her dating choices based on a prospective mate's opinions on late-80s early-90s LSU basketball players, you are absolutely insane.

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Chris Jackson lead Shaq in all but 3.

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I really can't believe that you are actually this stupid. Yes, Chris Jackson leads in a lot of the stats that you've named. However, many of his leads are very small (for example, he leads by .5 steals). Shaq's leads are all ENORMOUS (10.5 rebounds, 4.5 blocks, nearly 10% higher 2%). You can't just count up the total number of stats a player leads in; you also need to consider the magnitude of those leads.

I already went through the numbers in my first post in this topic, but maybe this time it will actually get through to you. Let's look at each stat

Points per game: CJ leads here, 29 to 21.6
3 point %, 2 point %, FT%: CJ is much better on 3 and FT%, but Shaq is drastically better on 2 point %. They work out to be about even in shooting efficiency (i.e. points per reboundable shot attempt). If you don't believe me, do the math yourself.
Assists: 3.6 to 1.9 advantage for CJ.
Steals: 1.7 to 1.2 in CJ's favor.
Rebounds: 13.5 to 3.0 in Shaq's favor.
Blocks: 4.6 to 0.1 in Shaq's favor.
Turnovers per touches: A bad stat that double-counts touches; if you want to give CJ an advantage for having the ball so often when it comes to turnovers, you MUST give him a disadvantage on points and assists, since those also rely on offensive touches. We can either use base stats, giving CJ a .3 turnover disadvantage, or we can try to construct some kind of per-touch stat and take away some of his edge in assists and points. You can't use per-touch when it is beneficial for CJ and not when it would help Shaq.

So let's look at the totals:
CJ is +7.4 points, +1.7 assists, +.5 steals, -10.5 rebounds, -4.5 blocks, and +.3 turnovers. What you are saying by calling CJ the better player is that his pluses outweigh Shaq's here. Please show me the relative values that you would assign to each stat to make that true. I guarantee that you will need to assign absolutely absurd values to some of them.

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If Shaq thinks otherwise, he is wrong

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I really can't believe that you are actually this stupid. Yes, Chris Jackson leads in a lot of the stats that you've named. However, many of his leads are very small (for example, he leads by .5 steals). Shaq's leads are all ENORMOUS (10.5 rebounds, 4.5 blocks, nearly 10% higher 2%). You can't just count up the total number of stats a player leads in; you also need to consider the magnitude of those leads.

I already went through the numbers in my first post in this topic, but maybe this time it will actually get through to you. Let's look at each stat

Points per game: CJ leads here, 29 to 21.6
3 point %, 2 point %, FT%: CJ is much better on 3 and FT%, but Shaq is drastically better on 2 point %. They work out to be about even in shooting efficiency (i.e. points per reboundable shot attempt). If you don't believe me, do the math yourself.
Assists: 3.6 to 1.9 advantage for CJ.
Steals: 1.7 to 1.2 in CJ's favor.
Rebounds: 13.5 to 3.0 in Shaq's favor.
Blocks: 4.6 to 0.1 in Shaq's favor.
Turnovers per touches: A bad stat that double-counts touches; if you want to give CJ an advantage for having the ball so often when it comes to turnovers, you MUST give him a disadvantage on points and assists, since those also rely on offensive touches. We can either use base stats, giving CJ a .3 turnover disadvantage, or we can try to construct some kind of per-touch stat and take away some of his edge in assists and points. You can't use per-touch when it is beneficial for CJ and not when it would help Shaq.

So let's look at the totals:
CJ is +7.4 points, +1.7 assists, +.5 steals, -10.5 rebounds, -4.5 blocks, and +.3 turnovers. What you are saying by calling CJ the better player is that his pluses outweigh Shaq's here. Please show me the relative values that you would assign to each stat to make that true. I guarantee that you will need to assign absolutely absurd values to some of them.

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CJ was better. What kind of a-hole uses stats to tell the story?

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Merry Christmas Rick

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You too.

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OH the IRONY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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That was for you. I thought youd get a kick out of it.

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CJ was better. What kind of a-hole uses stats to tell the story?

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. . . are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. If not . . . why would using stats make me an a-hole? They're just a record of what happened during basketball games. They're a way to attempt to measure value in games that took place 25 years ago without needing to rely on memory or watching a few games on tape and extrapolating from them.

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All Shaq did was Dunk

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No, that is not all Shaq did. He also averaged 4.6 blocks per game and 13.5 rebounds per game. You are aware that basketball is a game that involves defense and rebounding, right?

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I thought that was the case, which is part of why your comment had me really weirded out. Didn't realize you were just "playing to the crowd."

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Was trying to get a laugh out of peej.

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Dude I know more about the game of basketball than you ever will...

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I doubt it, but whatever. If you really did know so much about basketball you would either state your credentials or you would reference something verifiable. Otherwise you're just some random person on a message board claiming to be an expert.

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I don't need highlights... I watch both play LIVE while at LSU...

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So your memory is absolutely perfect over a 25 year stretch? That's impressive.

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day what you want and it's just an opinion, BUT CJ was better at LSU than Shaq...

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Nope. And your totally un-verifiable basketball knowledge and perfect 25-year memory are not going to convince me. You'll need to actually use some kind of evidence.