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Message

re: No Respect for Les Miles

Posted on 4/17/13 at 5:59 pm to
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
22100 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 5:59 pm to
quote:

only had an hour man and I spent more time doing that than planned. It's clear that people fall on one side of the fence or the other with Miles much like religion or politics. I don't have an agenda and I want what's best for LSU. I am mad, however, because I believe that Miles made some bad choices, choices I don't believe that I would have made in his shoes, like starting and playing Jefferson exclusively over Lee. Because my powers of deduction stop at what I perceive and believe and have no way of knowing what might have happened if choices that I would have approved of would have come to fruition, all I can do is speculate, but I believe that Miles choices cost the 2011 team dearly and I believe that the very basic numbers I crunched are representative of obvious perceiva




Nothing in that post is unreasonable.

If that's the terms people used to address their frustrations I doubt many people would argue with you.

But it's the outrageous digs at him like he's a moron or any coach could do what he's done or the team wins on talent alone and despite his idiocy that is just plain offensive. Mainly because it allows the media to portray him in that light as well without fear of alienating our fans and then directly contributed to the lack of respect that 2011 team received which led to the fricking Rematch to begin with.

That disrespect from our own fans hurts the program, and I'll take issue with anyone that denies that fact.

Rationally discussing frustrations and seeing room for improvement isn't a bad thing. Hell, that's what those of us who support and appreciate Miles see in every other program as well, to an even greater extent than exists at LSU in almost every other program.

But pretending that LSU is some self sustaining Juggernaut that wouldn't have lost a game the past 8 years with any other coach is just plain ridiculous and harmful.

LSU improved every year from 2005-2007, took a step back in 2008 post NC due to a shitty QB situation, yet improved every year from 08-2011 despite that QB mess. Was it pretty or always according to plan?? Of course not. Welcome to the reality of the game of football.

That 2011 season is still the best coaching feat I've ever seen, even despite 1/9. If you had told me before the season that Miles was going to lead a Lee/JJ team to 13-0 SEC Champs against that brutal schedule with only ONE game being decided by less than TWO TOUCHDOWNS I would have laughed in your face. AND IM A MILES FAN!! That should have been the crowning jewel of Miles' resume, but because of the media's lack of respect, Saban got a second chance that Miles never would have in a million years.

In 2012, in what should have been another post NC step back year, LSU was vastly improved over the 2008 team. If we continue to improve each year the way we did in Miles previous two eras, I have no doubt the best is yet to come under what is already the greatest coach in LSU's history.

This post was edited on 4/17/13 at 6:29 pm
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
45074 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:06 pm to
quote:

That's a simplification, but that's what it boils down to, ypr in the 4th qtr.
Miles has been ultra-conservative on offense for the most part. It's easier to fall into that mode when you have a stellar defense and ST. Saban was the same for most of his career. Saban has made adjustments recently and Miles hiring Cam could signal Miles doing the same.

Other upstarts really rely on being offense oriented. And it catches up to them in the long run. Just like the lack of offensive productivity has caught up with Miles philosophy.

Instead of winning in the 4th Q of every game, you roll over people with offense and defense and ST early, then get your younger guys tons of PT. You also end up not having a 60:90 play differential in most games.
This post was edited on 4/17/13 at 6:08 pm
Posted by King Joey
Just south of the DC/US border
Member since Mar 2004
12731 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:11 pm to
quote:

A lot of games we win isn't necessarily the amount of coaching we have, it's the talent we have.
Just to be clear, you are considering here "the talent we have" not to be a reflection of Miles' performance as a coach, right? I mean, otherwise those "games we win" would still be a result of "the amount of coaching we have", right?
quote:

But once you get into those grinding games where you're facing a team with equal talent like a Bama or Florida or aTm or Georgia, the coaching and play calling is what sets the great teams apart from the good teams. And we've continued to show that our coaching is what falls short majority of the time.
Are you only referring to last season? Because going back any further than that one season, Miles has never had a losing record against those teams (4-3 from 2011-present, 7-3 since 2010, 8-5 since 2009, 8-8 since 2008, 10-8 since 2007, 11-9 since 2006, 13-10 since arriving in 2005). And Bama under Saban is the only one that has a winning record against him (Miles still has an overall winning record against Bama; and Florida under Urban was only 3-3 against Miles). So clearly our coaching is not falling short the "majority of the time" against those teams, even when they are good.

Posted by JR Hamilsbach
Member since Oct 2010
869 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

Tiger Voodoo


Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:18 pm to
quote:

You don't understand Miles' philosophy. He's a lineman himself, he knows what the OL can do to the DL over the course of 3 qtrs. Say he runs the ball for .5 ypr every down in the 1st, 2 ypr in the 2nd, 3.5 ypr in the 3rd, and 5 ypr in the 4th. If his defense can keep the game close, he can score in the 4th.


Ok well all that's nice and sounds good. But what happens when the defense breaks down and we can't score so we have to try to pile it on in the 4th. When really we should've been trying to pile it on all game instead of waiting until its too late to score.

That's not how offense works. Offense isn't a "maintaining" thing. It's a "put as many points on the board as fast and as many times as possible" thing.

We're so unaggressive and uncreative with our offensive play calling that teams laugh when we bring out our offense.
This post was edited on 4/17/13 at 6:19 pm
Posted by KennesawTiger
Your's mom's house
Member since Dec 2006
8007 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

We're so unaggressive and uncreative with our offensive play calling that teams laugh when we bring out our offense.



The funny part is, this doesn't really have much to do with why the offense has struggled.

And you are terrible at hyperbole.
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216143 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

Are you only referring to last season? Because going back any further than that one season, Miles has never had a losing record against those teams (4-3 from 2011-present, 7-3 since 2010, 8-5 since 2009, 8-8 since 2008, 10-8 since 2007, 11-9 since 2006, 13-10 since arriving in 2005). And Bama under Saban is the only one that has a winning record against him (Miles still has an overall winning record against Bama; and Florida under Urban was only 3-3 against Miles). So clearly our coaching is not falling short the "majority of the time" against those teams, even when they are good.



I don't understand how this thread is still going......... I mean I have seen Miles make a few mistakes but.. I have seen him come back from adversity and be a GREAT coach. I have NOT seen ANYONE in this thread dispute me that he is NOT a top three coach in this country............
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:37 pm to
quote:

The funny part is, this doesn't really have much to do with why the offense has struggled.


Then why did our offense struggle?

Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216143 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:39 pm to
quote:

Then why did our offense struggle?



DEFINE STRUGGLE.................
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:41 pm to
quote:

Ok well all that's nice and sounds good. But what happens when the defense breaks down and we can't score so we have to try to pile it on in the 4th.

We lose.

Which happens at about a 19.8% rate - good for the best out of all the BCS schools.
quote:

That's not how offense works. Offense isn't a "maintaining" thing

Offense is to put more points on the board than your opponent. Which happens at about a 80.2% rate in Miles' time at LSU. I'll let you guess where that ranks among BCS schools.
quote:

We're so unaggressive and uncreative with our offensive play calling that teams laugh when we bring out our offense.

Except for when they're crying in the 4th qtr - which happens a lot.
Posted by KennesawTiger
Your's mom's house
Member since Dec 2006
8007 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:42 pm to
quote:

Then why did our offense struggle?


Execution. You can have the most sophisticated playbook in the world, but if the players do not know(or are just inadequately taught) the terminology/purpose etc. of what they are doing; they will struggle.

And the result will be the freak show we've seen the past couple of years.

Unaggressive can work. Ask Gus Malzahn. Uncreative can work too. Ask Nebraska in the early-mid 90's.
This post was edited on 4/17/13 at 6:43 pm
Posted by tubucoco
las vegas, nevada
Member since Oct 2007
32994 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 6:49 pm to
He is not a top 3 coach, pj. Not even in the SEC.
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
45074 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:09 pm to
Here's the original list, who would you want over Miles?

1. Nick Saban, Alabama - Only an idiot would say no.
2. Steve Spurrier, South Carolina - Not at his age, but yes.
3. Mark Richt, Georgia - a lesser Miles. No.
4. Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M - maybe in time, but no.
5. James Franklin, Vanderbilt - no.
6. Dan Mullen, Mississippi State - no.
7. Les Miles, LSU - duh.
8. Bret Bielema, Arkansas - no.
9. Hugh Freeze, Ole Miss - no.
10. Will Muschamp, Florida - maybe in time, but no.
11. Butch Jones, Tennessee - no.
12. Gary Pinkel, Missouri - no.
13. Gus Malzahn, Auburn - no.
14. Mark Stoops, Kentucky - no.

There you have it, Miles is the 3rd best coach in the SEC behind Saban and SOS, but the 2nd-4th best coaching in the future depending on how other coaches play out.

That is not 7th. 7th is a joke and I get suspended from TD time to time for calling out Miles.
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216143 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

He is not a top 3 coach, pj. Not even in the SEC



Give me YOUR reasons....................
Posted by tubucoco
las vegas, nevada
Member since Oct 2007
32994 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:14 pm to
I'd probably put hin 4th in the SEC. Saban, Spurrier, Mullen better coaches. If Mullen coached LSU's talent you would see the difference.
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216143 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:15 pm to
quote:

1. Nick Saban, Alabama - Only an idiot would say no. 2. Steve Spurrier, South Carolina - Not at his age, but yes. 3. Mark Richt, Georgia - a lesser Miles. No. 4. Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M - maybe in time, but no. 5. James Franklin, Vanderbilt - no. 6. Dan Mullen, Mississippi State - no. 7. Les Miles, LSU - duh.



Saban is #1
Meyer is #2
Miles is #3
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216143 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:16 pm to
quote:

I'd probably put hin 4th in the SEC





Saban
Miles









THE REST..........
Posted by tubucoco
las vegas, nevada
Member since Oct 2007
32994 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:20 pm to
you got Meyers down who isn't even in the SEC anymore. Seriously though, I know Spurrier has slipped with age, but if you think Miles is better at coaching then those 3 guys I listed in front him. Okay.

Mullen wouldn't have LSU's offense strugglin like that. Dude wish he had RB's and receivers like that at State. As for the Sumlin guy some have, jury is still out on him for me, I have to see him without Johnny Football.
This post was edited on 4/17/13 at 7:30 pm
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
45074 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

Saban
Miles









THE REST..........
I would never attempt to argue with someone that considers SOS among "THE REST....."
This post was edited on 4/17/13 at 7:24 pm
Posted by Sheetbend
Member since Apr 2013
1267 posts
Posted on 4/17/13 at 7:31 pm to
The fact that Miles has kept LSU in the top 2 of SEC programs during his tenure is proof of his head coaching ability.

Miles battled Meyer’s Florida for SEC dominance for years, and now Bama since Saban came back. Bama has prevailed in the past few meetings, but not by that much.

The Bama fans on here talk as if the battle for SEC dominance is over. Fact is Bama is #1 for now, but that is about to change with the resurgence of Florida with Mustchamp & Pease, Georgia—not sure about their defensive coaching, TAM with an improving in-state recruiting program coupled with a great coaching staff, and LSU with an improved offensive philosophy and much better future talent level at QB.

With all the football rich talent states in the SEC (Texas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Alabama, no one program can dominate the conference for long, but Miles has kept LSU at or near the top his entire time as the Tiger’s H.C.
This post was edited on 4/17/13 at 7:35 pm
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