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Message
re: No Matter What-JJ
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:07 am to Rudy40
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:07 am to Rudy40
quote:
Actually after 2+ seasons of watching him I am obsessing for good qb play.
Actually...in 2009...his stats weren't that far off of Matt Flynn's from '07. Good not great. He regressed in '10 which i think had alot to do with Crowton. But if you hate JJ than you'll never see it that way....and its pretty obvious you hate the kid. 99% of your posts for the last 3 months have been about him.
This post was edited on 6/20/11 at 10:08 am
1
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:08 am to Rudy40
quote:
You actually think there is a chance for Mett to be anywhere near as bad as JJ was last year?
The one thing that stands out to me about Mett is that he puts way too much air under some of the balls. He is not used to playing against superior secondary talent. Let him practice for a year against our defense, then light the SEC on fire next year.
JJ is our best chance to win it all this year, even if Mett has a higher ceiling next year.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:08 am to Choctaw
quote:
Actually...in 2009...his stats weren't that far off of Matt Flynn's from '07. Good not great
Uhhh I thought Crowton was the OC in 2009 as well as Flynn's OC in 2007? That being so why would it be the OC's fault he regressed if it was the same OC?
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:12 am to Rudy40
quote:
Uhhh I thought Crowton was the OC in 2009 as well as Flynn's OC in 2007? That being so why would it be the OC's fault he regressed if it was the same OC?
Flynn was a senior when GC got here. If you look at Crowtons past with other teams its a pattern with him. Its happened at every school he's been to. He does great with senior, established QBs but struggles when he has to develop one.
This post was edited on 6/20/11 at 10:13 am
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:15 am to Rudy40
quote:
Uhhh I thought Crowton was the OC in 2009 as well as Flynn's OC in 2007? That being so why would it be the OC's fault he regressed if it was the same OC?
For someone who chirps the same old stats from JJ last year, and uses the argument that "History is the best indicator"
Why do you refuse to include the "History" of a QB regressing under Crowton at all of his stops?
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:17 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Why do you refuse to include the "History" of a QB regressing under Crowton at all of his stops?
because that means he wouldn't be able to put all the blame on JJ.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:22 am to Choctaw
quote:
because that means he wouldn't be able to put all the blame on JJ.
Actually because if your argument is that JJ was a good qb and Crowton made him worse I dont buy it? If that was the case he took Flynn who had never been a full time starter and put up some very good numbers. I dont think Crowton is a good OC but I dont think he took JJ and made him worse. I would buy the argument that he did not develop JJ and the DC's adjusted to JJ and that is why the difference in stats but I think a good qb with even average coaching just by repetition would improve his accuracy by throwing pass after pass in practice. I think some of the blame goes to Crowton but I think JJ deserves as much or more. Lee has had the same coaching and while I dont think he is a great qb by any means he has definitely improved and I think if he would have been the starter last year the offense would have been much more cohesive and had an opportunity to play for the SEC championship.
So with the same coaching why has Lee progressed and Jefferson not?
This post was edited on 6/20/11 at 10:24 am
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:29 am to Rudy40
so much fail rudy. you dont make any sense.
That is not the argument. The argument is that JJ needing true QB coaching to progress from HS to SEC caliber. That coaching was not in place with Crowton. It is now.
Flynn had 4 years in a system that Crowton kept in place for the '07 year. Flynn also is an NFL QB who is a damn good backup on the superbowl championship team. You can not credit Gary for Flynn. Credit goes to Jimbo and Flynn.
He didn't make him worse. He was a HS QB and never got developed into a true SEC QB.
DC's adjust to offensive scheme. They adjusted to the predictable plays Crowton called. The packages gave the plays away.
Though you just said that you don't blame Crowton, it's all JJ's fault?
Based on what? Practice reports that you tell us to ignore regarding JJ?
Based on what? How do you know JJ isn't better than Lee at this time?
quote:
Actually because if your argument is that JJ was a good qb and Crowton made him worse I dont buy it?
That is not the argument. The argument is that JJ needing true QB coaching to progress from HS to SEC caliber. That coaching was not in place with Crowton. It is now.
quote:
f that was the case he took Flynn who had never been a full time starter and put up some very good numbers.
Flynn had 4 years in a system that Crowton kept in place for the '07 year. Flynn also is an NFL QB who is a damn good backup on the superbowl championship team. You can not credit Gary for Flynn. Credit goes to Jimbo and Flynn.
quote:
I dont think Crowton is a good OC but I dont think he took JJ and made him worse
He didn't make him worse. He was a HS QB and never got developed into a true SEC QB.
quote:
I would buy the argument that he did not develop JJ and the DC's adjusted to JJ
DC's adjust to offensive scheme. They adjusted to the predictable plays Crowton called. The packages gave the plays away.
quote:
I think some of the blame goes to Crowton but I think JJ deserves as much or more.
Though you just said that you don't blame Crowton, it's all JJ's fault?
quote:
Lee has had the same coaching and while I dont think he is a great qb by any means he has definitely improved
Based on what? Practice reports that you tell us to ignore regarding JJ?
quote:
So with the same coaching why has Lee progressed and Jefferson not?
Based on what? How do you know JJ isn't better than Lee at this time?
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:32 am to Rudy40
quote:
Lee has had the same coaching and while I dont think he is a great qb by any means he has definitely improved and I think if he would have been the starter last year the offense would have been much more cohesive and had an opportunity to play for the SEC championship.
what on Gods green earth gave you that idea? The 6-8 plays in which he did well?
quote:
So with the same coaching why has Lee progressed
ummm....he hasn't
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:35 am to BigEdLSU
Okay first of all are you going to honestly tell me Lee who threw one INT in 89 attempts last year hasnt progressed significantly.
Second why do I think JL is the better qb? For one in the games he got significant time to play he outperformed him in almost every one. The exception being Auburn in which he wasnt the same after Fairly slammed Lee to the ground and seemed to injure his wrist or shoulder.
Lets see one qb throws one INT in 89 attempts and the other throws one every 21 attempts. Also if you noticed in almost every game when LSU needed a 2 min offense Lee was the one who came in and led it so it wasnt like Lee amassed his numbers in scrub duty.
Are you really going to argue that Lee didnt look significantly better last year than his RS freshman year?
Second why do I think JL is the better qb? For one in the games he got significant time to play he outperformed him in almost every one. The exception being Auburn in which he wasnt the same after Fairly slammed Lee to the ground and seemed to injure his wrist or shoulder.
Lets see one qb throws one INT in 89 attempts and the other throws one every 21 attempts. Also if you noticed in almost every game when LSU needed a 2 min offense Lee was the one who came in and led it so it wasnt like Lee amassed his numbers in scrub duty.
Are you really going to argue that Lee didnt look significantly better last year than his RS freshman year?
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:44 am to Rudy40
Id love to see Lee get a fair chance honestly. The coaches seem to think JJ is better. I trust them.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:47 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Id love to see Lee get a fair chance honestly. The coaches seem to think JJ is better. I trust them.
Well I see that we agee on something for the most part. I still wonder if it is the coaches that think he is better or it is Miles forcing the issue???
I think that is a fair question!
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:49 am to Rudy40
quote:
Well I see that we agee on something for the most part. I still wonder if it is the coaches that think he is better or it is Miles forcing the issue???
I think that is a fair question!
Do you really think Miles would force the issue and put in the QB that doesn't give us the best chance to win and risk losing games? I don't think so. Lee is a better passer and has improved, but he still has happy feet and sloppy mechanics. Krags is going to help improve those things, but Lee freaks out under pressure. JJ at least can run it and isn't afraid to take a shot. Lee freaks out and chunks the ball and winds up with picks.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:53 am to Hulkklogan
quote:
. JJ at least can run it and isn't afraid to take a shot. Lee freaks out and chunks the ball and winds up with picks.
That may have been a fair assesment in 08 but this is 11. In 2010 Lee threw 1 INT in 89 attempts and Jefferson threw 1 every 21 attempts. Who freaks out and throws pics? I will admit I think Lee could have had 2 or 3 more picked easily but I also can remember 4-5 more JJ probably should have had picked.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 10:58 am to Rudy40
Lee did some great things for us last year. He also had some big mistakes.
Same thing for JJ.
Same thing for JJ.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 11:05 am to Rudy40
quote:
That may have been a fair assesment in 08 but this is 11. In 2010 Lee threw 1 INT in 89 attempts and Jefferson threw 1 every 21 attempts. Who freaks out and throws pics? I will admit I think Lee could have had 2 or 3 more picked easily but I also can remember 4-5 more JJ probably should have had picked.
Lee still does the same things. Even in the spring game he threw some desperate passes. Throwing into double coverage because you're about to take a hit isn't a good idea. Just because he got lucky and didn't get picked off doesn't mean he's any better. Jefferson throws picks because he's not a great passer (he's much, much better throwing off of the run, in a bootleg for example) and overthrows/underthrows receivers. But for the most part, he stays stoic under pressure and takes hits. I gained respect for him in 2009 when the 'Bama pass rusher (I think it was a LBer) speared him in the chest. He sat for a few seconds, got up, and went back at it. I don't know if you've ever had anything hit your sternum, but being speared by a LBer going full speed.. that HURTS.
Jefferson is not a good SEC QB. Crowton didn't help develop him and he's not naturally great. IMO he's an athlete playing QB. Lee is a better natural passer, a little weaker of an arm but more accurate most of the time. But when it's crunch time, who do you rather have in? The guy that probably will freak out at the sign of pressure, toss the ball and possibly throw a pick or even pick six, or the guy who will stay headstrong and can even get you a TD or first down with his legs?
Posted on 6/20/11 at 11:06 am to Rudy40
quote:
In 2010 Lee threw 1 INT in 89 attempts and Jefferson threw 1 every 21 attempts.
Lee also rarely through downfield. Almost everything was around 5 - 8 yards because they were scared to death of him having another '09.
Who did you want to start the '10 season....Lee or JJ?
Posted on 6/20/11 at 11:07 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Lee did some great things for us last year. He also had some big mistakes.
quote:
Same thing for JJ.
I would agree their for the most point also. My argument would be that when you factor in the amount played and when played Lee's had as many or more big plays than Jefferson. Again that is factoring in amount played. Lee threw approximately 40% as many passes as JJ and I think he played approximately 30-35% of the snaps off the top of my head. I think Jefferson played average to well in 4 of 13 games. I think Lee saw significant action in maybe 5 games and played average to very well in 3.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 11:17 am to Rudy40
quote:
I would agree their for the most point also. My argument would be that when you factor in the amount played and when played Lee's had as many or more big plays than Jefferson. Again that is factoring in amount played. Lee threw approximately 40% as many passes as JJ and I think he played approximately 30-35% of the snaps off the top of my head. I think Jefferson played average to well in 4 of 13 games. I think Lee saw significant action in maybe 5 games and played average to very well in 3.
Lee had some big time plays last year, mostly in the 2 minute drill. That seems to be where he shines the brightest. I watched him STILL throw off his back foot a ton, STILL throw a soft lob right before he was about to get hit and STILL not able to get out of way of crawling man with no legs. To say he progressed is a bit of a stretch.
Posted on 6/20/11 at 11:23 am to LSUdm21
quote:
To say he progressed is a bit of a stretch.
Below is a link to Lee's stats in 08 he threw an INT one out of every 16.8 attempts. Last year he threw an INT one out of every 89 attempts. In 08 he completed 53.2% of his passes. In 2010 he completed 60.7% of his passes. While I think he still needs to improve that is significant improvement and I think he is much closer than JJ.
LINK
I still think Mett would give us the best chance to win.
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