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Message
re: Mediocre is 2 - 9 versus ranked teams over the last 2.5+ seasons
Posted on 10/29/10 at 2:53 am to LSUMafia
Posted on 10/29/10 at 2:53 am to LSUMafia
quote:
It's comical. Even in 2005-2007 we saw poor coaching from Les and his staff at times, but since we somehow went 11-2, 11-2, and 12-2 (2 losses in our NC year largely due to coaching mistakes), he's a great coach.
quote:
LSUMafia
In the end, reality always wins. We'll certainly see how it plays out.
It would help if we had some proper parameters to put this discussion in, but as Brule mentioned....absurd statements are absurd statements.
My feeling on this is....you're going to see a lot of misused talent here at LSU, and if we keep Miles here long enough, you'll see a decent decline, in my opinion.
1
Posted on 10/29/10 at 2:54 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
LSU will have the talent to compete for the NCG next year if the QB problem is fixed, but I am losing faith with ever passing game. I am not even sure Miles will make a move with Crowton.
Crowton is a puppet, Miles is going to fire him when he needs to buy himself an extra year. I agree, I am not so sure Crowton gets fired after this year. If LSU ends up with only 2 or 3 losses, I fully expect Miles to save his ace in the hole for another 4 or 5 loss season.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 2:54 am to jdrumdog
Right and you repeatedly insulting my intelligence whilst proving nothing is not straw man...
Posted on 10/29/10 at 2:56 am to DrSteveBrule
quote:
Crowton is a puppet, Miles is going to fire him when he needs to buy himself an extra year. I agree, I am not so sure Crowton gets fired after this year. If LSU ends up with only 2 or 3 losses, I fully expect Miles to save his ace in the hole for another 4 or 5 loss season.
if LSU loses 2 or 3 of the last 4 Crowton is gone.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 2:59 am to LSUMafia
quote:
Look, Dan doesn't want to admit reality whatsoever. He's continually changed what the meaning of the word "is" is in this topic like 50 times.
He and morons like Choctaw will continue to deflect any blame from Les.
That's cute and typical of you. Show up three hours later, don't read anything I've written and accuse me of something I didn't say.
quote:
He recruits thugs than when they get kicked off the team after some being given multiple chances, it's not on Les that we had attrition since everyone takes on risks. Well actually most successful coaches either take on only a few or actually are stern leaders that show these types of players from the beginning that bullshite won't be tolerated.
Right, so all these "thugs" we recruited that no one would want... why did they end up at OU, Arkansas, South Carolina... even AFTER we gave their asses the boot for failing drug tests, stealing... fighting....
quote:
In the end, nothing of actual substance is Miles fault to them. It's truly pathetic. When the stats suit them, we beat a #9 team in 2008 in Auburn. Nevermind that team went 5-7 and was an abortion of a football team, they were #9 in week 3.
This is such a pathetic argument, I'm not even going to address it.
quote:
Is Mettenberger, a kid that is yet to take a snap in an FBS game and actually commit and sign with LSU is going to fix these problems?
Again, flexing your profound knowledge of the game. Cameron Newton took all of what 15-20 snaps at Florida... he sure seems to be making a world of difference for Auburn... no?
quote:
It's comical. Even in 2005-2007 we saw poor coaching from Les and his staff at times, but since we somehow went 11-2, 11-2, and 12-2 (2 losses in our NC year largely due to coaching mistakes), he's a great coach.
Yep and you can go ahead and look through the thread and find out that I never said he was a great coach.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:01 am to OBUDan
quote:
I'm not going to sit here and read an academic paper on context to appease you.
I've read plenty.
Why you feel the need to continue to demean me and promote your own intelligence is beyond me... and it's typically something only someone highly insecure in their opinion would resort to... sound logic and reason need no insults...
I've tried to explain it to you about 15 times.
You continue to want to take it to a level of intellectual debate as if we are in an actual philosophical discourse or something.
It's a message board. I'm sorry if TigerDroppings.com is your source of academic information regarding LSU football. It's a pathetic place to come if so. And I will gladly point you to another site which offers more intelligent discussions.
The fact is, this is a message board and one that allows, through gracious admins and site owner (Chicken) a free range of opinions.
I don't know how much time you have ever spent on message boards, and I'm not going to go lacing through your post history to pull out all the "facts" and "opinions" you've given to analyze how the information was "presented" to tell you whether or not it was fact or opinion.
In that case, you are taking a fricking message board far too seriously, misinterpreting commonly accepted speech patterns and attempting to assign meaning to something that isn't there.
This is, as linked, a "straw man" argument. Notice how we have key words...such as the admin "chicken"....located in the middle. We now have an argument about the ridiculousness of taking a message board too seriously, and the inability to lace through previous posts, which would then be a hypocritical argument void of any substance to this debate. This is, as proven by the link, the very definition of a "straw man" argument.
If, however, you feel so compelled to go through my previous posts, I will gladly admit I've put forth plenty of absolute statements. You're welcome to bring them forth and "expose" them, and I'll gladly admit it. I have no problem in doing as much. Besides, it's just a message board. What harm is there in admitting wrong? (that's another "straw man", btw).
However, the subject in hand was proven false. I do apologize if this does not sit well with you. Your other seemingly absurd statements don't seem to be aiding you here either. Your parameters of argumentation do not seem to exist, and it certainly looks confusing when you start on an point of view that you're backing up with bogus statements, as proven here.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:02 am to OBUDan
quote:
Right and you repeatedly insulting my intelligence whilst proving nothing is not straw man...
this is a correct statement. While you do not admit nothing has been proven wrong, it does not mean you have not been proven false.
This post was edited on 10/29/10 at 3:03 am
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:02 am to DrSteveBrule
quote:
Why do you think the program is under so much heat right now despite having a good record? Any logical person KNOWS we are witnessing BAD football.
Ok, enlighten me to bad football.
We doubled up Tennessee in yardage and barely won that game.
We were outgained by Mississippi State and won by 22.
We had a superstar player mysteriously drop a punt against Florida and gift them a TD.
Were all three of these games "bad football?"
Have we ever played "good football" under Miles?
I'm asking legitimately...
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:04 am to LSUMafia
quote:
He recruits thugs than when they get kicked off the team after some being given multiple chances, it's not on Les that we had attrition since everyone takes on risks
His whole point was that everyone has attrition, but ours was mostly at OL which is pretty strange.
quote:
Well actually most successful coaches either take on only a few or actually are stern leaders that show these types of players from the beginning that bullshite won't be tolerated.
Not true. A coach can't control what a college kid does 24/7. He can be as stern as he wants in practice, but it usually isn't going to change a kid. Besides, coaches will go after talented kids no matter what risks might be involved. They'll give the more talented players more chances too.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:04 am to jdrumdog
quote:
I do apologize if this does not sit well with you.
I'm beginning to believe it sits less well with you that it doesn't bother me at all that you haven't proven anything. Because this is a sentiment you've repeatedly returned to which has absolutely zero merit.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:04 am to jdrumdog
My thing is this, we've seen 2 QBs with as much talent if not more than Mettenberger show absolutely minimal if not negative progress the last 3 seasons under Miles and Crowton.
Also,if Lee can't even get in the game when Jefferson can't hit the broad side of a barn and throws more to the opposing team than to his own, what does anyone think is going to change next year?
In the end, I've seen enough out of Miles even in his wins to have absolutely no faith in him.
People keep bringing up the Coker/Shannon example for trying to say it's too risky to make the change, but that's only true if you do a poor job in your coaching search. Miami promoted Shannon rather than hiring fresh and bringing in a new outlook. That was their mistake.
If they wanted to stay on top, they needed to hire someone with a stronger resume. LSU won't be hiring a coordinator with no head coaching experience unless they are one of the top notch candidates. Bama pays Saban just a bit more than Miles. They went out and got a proven commodity in Saban. LSU could do the same, but using the Miami's/ND's of the world to justify holding on to a mediocre coach that is paid in the top 6 in the entire country is pathetic.
Also,if Lee can't even get in the game when Jefferson can't hit the broad side of a barn and throws more to the opposing team than to his own, what does anyone think is going to change next year?
In the end, I've seen enough out of Miles even in his wins to have absolutely no faith in him.
People keep bringing up the Coker/Shannon example for trying to say it's too risky to make the change, but that's only true if you do a poor job in your coaching search. Miami promoted Shannon rather than hiring fresh and bringing in a new outlook. That was their mistake.
If they wanted to stay on top, they needed to hire someone with a stronger resume. LSU won't be hiring a coordinator with no head coaching experience unless they are one of the top notch candidates. Bama pays Saban just a bit more than Miles. They went out and got a proven commodity in Saban. LSU could do the same, but using the Miami's/ND's of the world to justify holding on to a mediocre coach that is paid in the top 6 in the entire country is pathetic.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:05 am to jdrumdog
quote:
While you do not admit nothing has been proven wrong, it does not mean you have not been proven false.
While you do assert you have proven false, it does not prove you have proven anything false.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:05 am to OBUDan
quote:
Have we ever played "good football" under Miles?
I'm asking legitimately...
Outside of Auburn last year and the first half of '07 I don't think LSU has played a "complete game" in a while. Certain aspects have been good.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:06 am to OBUDan
quote:
I'm beginning to believe it sits less well with you that it doesn't bother me at all that you haven't proven anything. Because this is a sentiment you've repeatedly returned to which has absolutely zero merit.
Unlike my previous thread posts, there is no proof that there is zero merit. In fact, there are pages of evidence to the contrary. I'll be happy to link the previous pages.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:07 am to OBUDan
quote:
While you do assert you have proven false, it does not prove you have proven anything false.
This is incorrect. Would you care for your responses in this thread relinked to you with my previous definitions relinked? I'd be more than happy to repost every single page.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:09 am to LSUMafia
quote:
People keep bringing up the Coker/Shannon example for trying to say it's too risky to make the change, but that's only true if you do a poor job in your coaching search. Miami promoted Shannon rather than hiring fresh and bringing in a new outlook. That was their mistake.
If they wanted to stay on top, they needed to hire someone with a stronger resume. LSU won't be hiring a coordinator with no head coaching experience unless they are one of the top notch candidates. Bama pays Saban just a bit more than Miles. They went out and got a proven commodity in Saban. LSU could do the same, but using the Miami's/ND's of the world to justify holding on to a mediocre coach that is paid in the top 6 in the entire country is pathetic.
Okay, then let's go this direction.
I think we can fairly assume you only have a cursory opinion of just about any other coach in the country (you don't watch EVERY game they coach, you don't follow their recruiting, you don't analyze EVERY single game, move, decision).
You formulate your opinion of other coaches based off a couple things: maybe a game or three you have watched, media/message board hype/opinion.
Who then has so indicated they are worthy of the most established coaching throne in college football history?
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:09 am to OBUDan
quote:
I'm beginning to believe it sits less well with you
yet here you are, dropping "f" bombs. Would you like a link to your "f" bombs?
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:09 am to OBUDan
quote:
Ok, enlighten me to bad football.
We doubled up Tennessee in yardage and barely won that game.
We were outgained by Mississippi State and won by 22.
We had a superstar player mysteriously drop a punt against Florida and gift them a TD.
Were all three of these games "bad football?"
Have we ever played "good football" under Miles?
I'm asking legitimately...
We beat Mississippi State with turnovers. Our offense is frickING TERRIBLE. Whenever you are THIS BAD on a whole DIMENSION of the game of football is it really necessary to ask if we are seeing bad football?
LSU has never played good football under Miles. There have been games where LSU played lights out, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Ohio State, but on a week to week basis LSU has typically played fundamentally poor football under Les Miles. Playcalling has always been atrocious. Kentucky in 2007. Auburn in 2007, the pass on the final down of the game was such a low percentage play. Lack of discipline. Penalties left and right.
Unfortunately for you, a lot of this goes back an eye test, which is something that you don't believe in. Eye test showed me from the beginning that LSU WOULD lose games if Les Miles didn't tighten up the program. When LSU won the national title in 2007, I blindly chose to believe that Les Miles was a good coach for the first time I ever have, despite the fact that he completely lucked into the title game. That was short lived when 2008 rolled around and I realized that it was a farce all along and my original instincts were right.
This post was edited on 10/29/10 at 3:14 am
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:10 am to ZTiger87
quote:
His whole point was that everyone has attrition, but ours was mostly at OL which is pretty strange.
Not strange at all. It was one that came from shitty recruiting and player evaluation. Lots of coaches take risks, but don't make them a large segment of their team much less a large segment of one position area.
quote:
Not true. A coach can't control what a college kid does 24/7. He can be as stern as he wants in practice, but it usually isn't going to change a kid. Besides, coaches will go after talented kids no matter what risks might be involved. They'll give the more talented players more chances too.
No one expects them to babysit the kids 24/7. Players are going to do stupid shite, but true leadership is seen with on the field play and in how players carry themselves. Miles seems to lack these things.
Again, people can keep blaming others for Miles faults by trying to deflect his screwups and this teams misfortunes on everyone else and uncontrollable, but when an entire class of OL fails to stay on the team even 3 years that goes back to the recruiters.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 3:10 am to DrSteveBrule
quote:
Lack of discipline. Penalties left and right.
Penalties would probably be an interesting statistic to look at.
This post was edited on 10/29/10 at 3:11 am
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