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1
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:16 pm to Salviati
I'm sorry, but with that hat on, I cant exactly make out who that picture is?
Is that Zach Lee, Gunnar Kiel or Shea Patterson?
Is that Zach Lee, Gunnar Kiel or Shea Patterson?
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:30 pm to League Champs
quote:
Zach Lee
Got paid millions to go play baseball
quote:
Gunnar Kiel
He bounced around and landed in Cincinnati. Looks like we were lucky to miss out on a mentally weak guy.
quote:
Shea Patterson
What is his connection to LSU again?
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:43 pm to Bourbon Cowboy
quote::smh:
so at what point in all those GIFs were you actually replying to RobbBobbs post? He made some good points.
you on the other hand.....wellllll
First, RobbBobb is a fricking idiot, so let's just start there.
Second, the starting point for RobbBobb's post is: "Miles intentionally screwed with that kids head." (Emphasis added.) Remember when I said that RobbBobb is a fricking idiot? Let me repeat that here.
Third, RobbBobb is a fricking idiot.
Fourth, RobbBobb ended his rant with: "Miles screwed with Lees head in retaliation for the '08 pickfest, and hes continuing to do it with every drop back passer since." Because Miles doesn't play for victory, nah, he'd rather intentionally frick over a player he recruited to play for him.
Fifth, please explain how anything RobbBobb posted deserves anything besides the gifs that I posted.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:44 pm to BeeFense5
Any of these 3 guys might have helped LSU...we'll never know now.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:51 pm to Salviati
I don't think miles intentionally tried to screw with Lee's head, but he definitely had it in his head that jefferson was going to be the starter at QB as soon as he could. Lee throws two picks vs Alabama and that was all Les needed to essentially "fire" Jarrett Lee as his starting QB in 2011.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:55 pm to monsterballads
quote:
I don't think miles intentionally tried to screw with Lee's head, but he definitely had it in his head that jefferson was going to be the starter at QB as soon as he could. Lee throws two picks vs Alabama and that was all Les needed to essentially "fire" Jarrett Lee as his starting QB in 2011.
This.....it gave CLM all the justification he needed to can JL. Forget what the kid did to get us to that point.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:55 pm to BeeFense5
quote:
BeeFense5
I cannot believe you went to that much trouble to defend Miles. Proof, yet again, that Miles lovers are simple minded
All my question did was point out that like Lee, Kiel, and Patterson, that kid aint on campus either
Miles goes 8-5 next year with AJ, and Franks will have to see if LSUs next coach still wants him
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:56 pm to League Champs
quote:
Miles goes 8-5
Miles job is safe as long as he has a winning record IMO
Posted on 3/12/15 at 2:59 pm to monsterballads
quote:
Miles job is safe as long as he has a winning record IMO
I hope you realize that Miles' record next season is moot as to whether or not he is employed by LSU going into the 2016 season?
Miles could go 0-12 and he wouldn't get canned bc Alleva aint paying that buyout.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 3:00 pm to Salviati
quote:
please explain how anything RobbBobb posted deserves anything besides the gifs that I posted.
Well, he posted inconsistencies in Miles coaching patterns by his treatment of JL, and, well, you posted crying gifs
So, I think that speaks for itself if someone is looking at comparing posters intellect
Posted on 3/12/15 at 3:00 pm to Salviati
quote:
Second, the starting point for RobbBobb's post is: "Miles intentionally screwed with that kids head." (Emphasis added.) Remember when I said that RobbBobb is a fricking idiot? Let me repeat that here.
remember in the 2011 SECCG when LSU was up 42-10 and Lee took the final snap of the game, in victory formation?
im not saying Les was trolling Lee,
but I'm jussayin.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 3:01 pm to League Champs
quote:
Franks will have to see if LSUs next coach still wants him
Would be pretty weird if the "next coach" wouldn't want a top 3 rated QB coming out of high school.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 3:37 pm to monsterballads
quote:
Miles job is safe as long as he has a winning record IMO
But the stove will get real hot.........
Posted on 3/12/15 at 3:57 pm to Salviati
quote:
Because Miles doesn't play for victory, nah, he'd rather intentionally frick over a player he recruited to play for him.
Wow, Les you seem pretty pissed that I pointed out your ill treatment of Jarrett
But its pretty much been determined that you now play 'not to lose' rather than to win, so benching Lee is not exactly a convincing argument for you. Because since that Bama game, youve lost 12 times. Yet, Lee played in 36 games, and only 6 were losses. 4 of those when he was a Fr, and the other 2 he wasnt the starter
Posted on 3/12/15 at 4:05 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
ill treatment of Jarrett
Posted on 3/12/15 at 4:36 pm to monsterballads
quote:
but he definitely had it in his head that jefferson was going to be the starter at QB as soon as he could
Being that JJ had started for LSU in 08, 09, and 2010 and Miles as the HC could do any damn thing he wanted to do, "as soon as could" would have been in the 5th game of the yr. and not the 9th.
As Lee's dad roughly said, if you don't want to lose the starters role don't throw back to back ints in the most important game of the season to allow the #2 guy to come in help win the game.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 4:41 pm to League Champs
quote:I posted crying gifs because it perfectly exemplifies RobbBobb's points. Each of the eight gifs represents each of RobbBobb's eight crying points.
Well, he posted inconsistencies in Miles coaching patterns by his treatment of JL, and, well, you posted crying gifs
So, I think that speaks for itself if someone is looking at comparing posters intellect
quote:Let’s take a look at Lee’s QB Rating in his last four games of the 2008 regular season:
Ex #1: In '08 Lee gets hurt, and JJ takes over. Loses to Ole Miss. JJ then starts the next game and loses to Arky. So when Lee is healthy for the Chick bowl, does he start after 2 straight losses? (ref: Did Miles continue to let freshman Harris start after losing to Auburn?) Nope and Nope
88.08
69.13
116.01
50.97
How about his completion percentage:
40.00%
38.24%
58.82%
33.33%
Do you suppose that, rather than Miles intentionally fricking over Lee, that maybe Lee didn’t get the start in the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl Bowl because in his last four games he had only one game with a completion percentage over 40% and a QB Rating in triple digits?
quote:Against La Tech, Lee went 7 of 22. That’s 32% completion percentage . . . against La Tech. Once again, his QB rating was double digits. Maybe, just maybe, that's why Miles wouldn’t want to play more of Lee. In the loss against Ole Miss, Jefferson got a 121 QB Rating throwing for 250 yards. He had a bad game against Ole Miss, but he had nine games in 2009 with a QB Rating higher than 121. Lee finished the 2009 season with a double digit QB Rating.
Ex #2: In '09 JJ gets hurt. Lee comes in and wins the La Tech game. Does he regain the starting job? Nope. JJ starts again, and proceeds to lose to Ole Miss
quote:In the Florida game, Jefferson had 42 yards rushing and 100 yards passing; Lee had 124 yards passing. Jefferson rushed for two TDs; Lee threw for two TDs. Lee certainly helped. Good job, Lee.
Ex #3: In '10 Lee leads us to wins vs Tenn, Fla, and seals the deal vs Bama, and posts better stats vs BCS champ Auburn despite injuring his throwing hand. Does he start any in '11? Nope, not once.
In the Tennessee game, LSU scored two touchdowns. Jefferson was involved in both TD plays. LSU also kicked a field goal. Jefferson led that drive. Lee did lead the final two LSU drives. He threw an interception on the first of those drives. Jefferson successfully finished the second of those drives.
In the Alabama game, Jefferson was 10 of 13. Lee was 4 of 7. Jefferson threw a brilliant TD pass. Lee completed an important 47 yard pass on third down. Good job, Lee.
quote:LSU led 28-3 at the half. Second game of the season, and LSU had two scholly QBs at the time: Lee and Mettenberger. Lee was in his fifth year. Mett needed the experience much more than Lee. MSU and WVU were coming up. When was Mett supposed to get any game experience unless it was against Northwestern?
Ex #4: In '11 Lee leads LSU to a big lead over NSU. Miles yanks him at halftime, which he has never done to any other QB in 10 years
quote:Lee ended the first drive with two incompletions. Lee was 8 of 21 in the game. That’s 38%. On first down, Ford rushed for 0 yards. On second down, Blue rushed for 2 yards. On third down, Jefferson scored on a QB sneak. LSU runs better when Jefferson is in on the field because the defense has to account for a running QB. No one has ever said that Lee was a better runner than Jefferson. Does Miles have to apologize for playing the better player on a TD play? The play call worked, and Jefferson scored a TD. I know there’s no crying in baseball, but is RobbBobb allowed to cry about football?
Ex #5: In '11 Despite Lee being undefeated against 6 ranked teams, JJ returns from suspension for 1 practice, and in his 1st game back, on the 1st scoring drive Miles trots JJs arse out there to run the ball in. It takes him 2 tries.
quote:It was the Game of the Century, third and one. LSU runs better when Jefferson is in on the field because the defense has to account for a running QB. No one has ever said that Lee was a better runner than Jefferson. Does Miles have to apologize for playing the better player on a play that got a first down? The play call worked, and Jefferson picked up the first down. I know there’s no crying in baseball, but is RobbBobb allowed to cry about football?
Ex #6: In '11, despite Lee being 2/2 vs Bama in Nov, Miles decides its a great idea to pull him on the 5th play of the game so that JJ can run for a 1st down
[continued]
This post was edited on 3/12/15 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 3/12/15 at 4:43 pm to League Champs
[continued]
The staff chose Jefferson to play when he got back because he was a better QB. Jefferson was the starter for 2009, 2010, and going into 2011. If Lee was significantly better, Lee would have beaten Jefferson out at some point during those years.
Jefferson and Lee were equivalent passers. Jefferson was infinitely better in the running game. Jefferson was the better QB against elite defenses. The offense got more yards per play when Jefferson was the starting QB. The regular season numbers prove it. Both Jefferson and Lee faced #1 and #3 teams in the regular season. Jefferson had much better results. And you don’t want to look at Lee’s numbers against Bama.
Miles and the LSU coaching staff saw Jefferson and Lee compete against an elite defense every day. Fans only saw Jefferson and Lee compete for roughly 30 minutes combined each week.
The staff with their "specific knowledge" chose Jefferson over Lee because Jefferson gave LSU the better chance to win.
Second, Jefferson played against Georgia and Bama because LSU did not run well against top five defenses, but LSU ran better when Jefferson was the QB. In the first half of the SECCG, LSUs' RBs gained 21 yards on 9 attempts. That's 2.3 YPC. On one possession, Jefferson completed a 9 yard pass on first down. LSU's RBs ran the ball twice and could not get the first down. The first half of the SECCG sucked for the entire LSU offense. During the BCSCG, LSU's RBs gained 24 yards for the whole game.
The problem with the BCSCG and the first half of the SECCG is that LSU's offense did not work against those defenses. The problem was the offensive line. For the BCSCG, the O-line couldn’t move the Bama D-line, and they couldn’t hold them back either. There was no run game, and there was no time to pass.
In nearly every series of the BCSCG, the offense line failed to execute on at least one play. Bama had the best defense in college football. It would have been difficult to beat Bama unless they made a costly mistake or the offense executed at a very high level.
Lee would not have helped. Lee needed a clean pocket and time. He crumbled when faced with a stout rush. Just look at his historical numbers against Bama.
[continued]
quote:First, it was only a 7 point lead going into the fourth quarter. Second, this was a huge game, #1 vs. #3. LSU was playing for the right to play in the SEC and BCS championship. Third, once LSU was up by 24 points, did RobbBobb expect LSU to pass? Fourth, what did RobbBobb expect Lee to get, a laurel and hardy handshake? Fifth, did Lee get to play? Yes.
Ex #7: In '11 for Senior Day, Lee didn't even get credit from Miles for sticking it out, when all the rest of the QBs have bailed on him. In a 24 point blowout, Lee got to hand the ball off 4 times, and kneel once during the last series. Despite JJ throwing on 5 of 7 downs during the previous series!
quote:First, Jefferson was the starter according to both the head coach and the offensive coordinator. Unfortunately, Jefferson had to miss some games at the beginning of the 2011 season, but make no mistake, Jefferson was the starter. So there was no “proven track record of constantly subbing in the backup when Lee was the starter.” Jefferson was not the backup; Lee was not the starter. Lee was merely keeping the seat warm.
Ex #8: In '11 JJ has games of 30 yards passing, and 50 yards passing, and Lee does not so much as see one down, despite Miles proven track record of constantly subbing in the backup when Lee was the starter
The staff chose Jefferson to play when he got back because he was a better QB. Jefferson was the starter for 2009, 2010, and going into 2011. If Lee was significantly better, Lee would have beaten Jefferson out at some point during those years.
Jefferson and Lee were equivalent passers. Jefferson was infinitely better in the running game. Jefferson was the better QB against elite defenses. The offense got more yards per play when Jefferson was the starting QB. The regular season numbers prove it. Both Jefferson and Lee faced #1 and #3 teams in the regular season. Jefferson had much better results. And you don’t want to look at Lee’s numbers against Bama.
Miles and the LSU coaching staff saw Jefferson and Lee compete against an elite defense every day. Fans only saw Jefferson and Lee compete for roughly 30 minutes combined each week.
The staff with their "specific knowledge" chose Jefferson over Lee because Jefferson gave LSU the better chance to win.
Second, Jefferson played against Georgia and Bama because LSU did not run well against top five defenses, but LSU ran better when Jefferson was the QB. In the first half of the SECCG, LSUs' RBs gained 21 yards on 9 attempts. That's 2.3 YPC. On one possession, Jefferson completed a 9 yard pass on first down. LSU's RBs ran the ball twice and could not get the first down. The first half of the SECCG sucked for the entire LSU offense. During the BCSCG, LSU's RBs gained 24 yards for the whole game.
The problem with the BCSCG and the first half of the SECCG is that LSU's offense did not work against those defenses. The problem was the offensive line. For the BCSCG, the O-line couldn’t move the Bama D-line, and they couldn’t hold them back either. There was no run game, and there was no time to pass.
In nearly every series of the BCSCG, the offense line failed to execute on at least one play. Bama had the best defense in college football. It would have been difficult to beat Bama unless they made a costly mistake or the offense executed at a very high level.
Lee would not have helped. Lee needed a clean pocket and time. He crumbled when faced with a stout rush. Just look at his historical numbers against Bama.
[continued]
Posted on 3/12/15 at 4:43 pm to League Champs
[continued]
Third, even though Bama had flipped its offensive strategy for the BCSCG, it does not necessarily mean that LSU should have. Hindsight is always 20/20, and we know now that LSU’s plan did not work. However, LSU trailed Georgia 10-0 at the half in the SECCG. The offense was atrocious the first half but came around in the second half, and LSU blew out Georgia. It was not unreasonable for Miles to go with the strategy that worked so well in the SECCG. It was at least as reasonable as trying a QB that was the antithesis of the ideal QB to use against Bama.
Fourth, Jefferson was the right choice for the entire BCSCG. Lee would have been ineffective. Jefferson in the pocket slowed down the Bama rush because Bama used a mush rush to contain Jefferson and prevent him from running. It’s the same idea LSU used against Manziel to keep him from breaking off long runs. Slow the rush and contain the QB. Bama would not have used a mush rush against Lee because Lee is no threat to run.
So if Miles put in Lee, there’s still no run game, and now there is even less time to pass. If there is one thing Bama feasts on, it’s immobile pocket passers. Lee’s historic numbers against Bama confirm this fact. His QB Rating against Bama could fit in a shoe box.
Lee was efficient, but not prolific. During 2011, "efficient" is the single word that defined Lee. You'll be hard pressed to find a post about Lee without the word "efficient" just a few words away. The thing about being defined as “efficient” is that it means that you aren’t a prolific passer; you don’t throw it a lot. In fact, it typically means that the offense is run-oriented and passes infrequently. Prior to the GOTC, Lee averaged less than 20 passes per game. Lee had only one game in 2011 in which he threw for more than 200 yards: 213 yards against Mississippi State. Lee wasn’t a prolific passer. He was efficient.
Efficient does not work when you can’t run Efficient works when your team can run the ball effectively. Efficient means that the defense is focused on stopping the run. Efficient means that the defense is not expecting a pass. Efficient means that you have time to throw because the defense is not focused on stopping the pass. Efficient does not work when you aren’t running well. Efficient does not work when your line can’t block. Bama’s D was suffocating that night. Bama would have killed Lee.
Jefferson was a better QB than Lee.
Jefferson's three regular season starts were the three best offensive games of the season.
It wasn't that one of Jefferson's games was better than one of Lee's games. It wasn't that the average of Jefferson's three starts was better than the average of Lee's starts. Every regular season game that Jefferson started was better than every regular season game that Lee started.
LSU's second best passing game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best rushing game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best total offense game happened when Jefferson started.
Jefferson had better regular season passing numbers than Lee.
Compare regular season numbers. Jefferson had better passing numbers than Lee: higher Completion %; higher QB Rating; higher YPA; lower Interception %. And that's not even mentioning how much Jefferson improved the team's rushing attack. LSU rushed for over 250 yards in every game of Jefferson’s three starts.
Post-season numbers cannot be compared. Jefferson played in the Championship games. Lee didn't
Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.
From the moment that Jefferson threw his first pass in the Florida game in 2011, he had a higher QB Rating than Lee. Jefferson had a better efficiency rating than Lee, and that better efficiency continued for the rest of the regular season. That's right, from his first pass until the end of the regular season, Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.
So when folks say that Lee was an efficient QB, the "most efficient" QB in the SEC or in the nation, at no point during the regular season, from the time Jefferson threw his first pass until the end of the regular season, was Lee more efficient than Jefferson.
Third, even though Bama had flipped its offensive strategy for the BCSCG, it does not necessarily mean that LSU should have. Hindsight is always 20/20, and we know now that LSU’s plan did not work. However, LSU trailed Georgia 10-0 at the half in the SECCG. The offense was atrocious the first half but came around in the second half, and LSU blew out Georgia. It was not unreasonable for Miles to go with the strategy that worked so well in the SECCG. It was at least as reasonable as trying a QB that was the antithesis of the ideal QB to use against Bama.
Fourth, Jefferson was the right choice for the entire BCSCG. Lee would have been ineffective. Jefferson in the pocket slowed down the Bama rush because Bama used a mush rush to contain Jefferson and prevent him from running. It’s the same idea LSU used against Manziel to keep him from breaking off long runs. Slow the rush and contain the QB. Bama would not have used a mush rush against Lee because Lee is no threat to run.
So if Miles put in Lee, there’s still no run game, and now there is even less time to pass. If there is one thing Bama feasts on, it’s immobile pocket passers. Lee’s historic numbers against Bama confirm this fact. His QB Rating against Bama could fit in a shoe box.
Lee was efficient, but not prolific. During 2011, "efficient" is the single word that defined Lee. You'll be hard pressed to find a post about Lee without the word "efficient" just a few words away. The thing about being defined as “efficient” is that it means that you aren’t a prolific passer; you don’t throw it a lot. In fact, it typically means that the offense is run-oriented and passes infrequently. Prior to the GOTC, Lee averaged less than 20 passes per game. Lee had only one game in 2011 in which he threw for more than 200 yards: 213 yards against Mississippi State. Lee wasn’t a prolific passer. He was efficient.
Efficient does not work when you can’t run Efficient works when your team can run the ball effectively. Efficient means that the defense is focused on stopping the run. Efficient means that the defense is not expecting a pass. Efficient means that you have time to throw because the defense is not focused on stopping the pass. Efficient does not work when you aren’t running well. Efficient does not work when your line can’t block. Bama’s D was suffocating that night. Bama would have killed Lee.
Jefferson was a better QB than Lee.
Jefferson's three regular season starts were the three best offensive games of the season.
It wasn't that one of Jefferson's games was better than one of Lee's games. It wasn't that the average of Jefferson's three starts was better than the average of Lee's starts. Every regular season game that Jefferson started was better than every regular season game that Lee started.
LSU's second best passing game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best rushing game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best total offense game happened when Jefferson started.
Jefferson had better regular season passing numbers than Lee.
Compare regular season numbers. Jefferson had better passing numbers than Lee: higher Completion %; higher QB Rating; higher YPA; lower Interception %. And that's not even mentioning how much Jefferson improved the team's rushing attack. LSU rushed for over 250 yards in every game of Jefferson’s three starts.
Post-season numbers cannot be compared. Jefferson played in the Championship games. Lee didn't
Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.
From the moment that Jefferson threw his first pass in the Florida game in 2011, he had a higher QB Rating than Lee. Jefferson had a better efficiency rating than Lee, and that better efficiency continued for the rest of the regular season. That's right, from his first pass until the end of the regular season, Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.
So when folks say that Lee was an efficient QB, the "most efficient" QB in the SEC or in the nation, at no point during the regular season, from the time Jefferson threw his first pass until the end of the regular season, was Lee more efficient than Jefferson.
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