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2
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:23 pm to stout
quote:
Saban is at least as good if not better IMO.
Well, anyone can say practically anything and just add the little "IMO" on it, but even an opinion, if it's to have any credibility, must be based on some factual evidence. So far, Saban hasn't done anything that Miles has proven he can't do, but Miles has done some things that Saban proved he couldn't do. That doesn't settle the question, obviously, but there's nothing right now that strongly supports a case for Saban being a better coach than Miles.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:25 pm to Enrique
Hey Gator, how about any coach with last name of Nutt or whoever happens to be coaching Ole Piss???? 
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:27 pm to TigerOnTheProwl
Nutt is a decent coach too.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:27 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Well, anyone can say practically anything and just add the little "IMO" on it, but even an opinion, if it's to have any credibility, must be based on some factual evidence. So far, Saban hasn't done anything that Miles has proven he can't do, but Miles has done some things that Saban proved he couldn't do. That doesn't settle the question, obviously, but there's nothing right now that strongly supports a case for Saban being a better coach than Miles.
Saban has built a program from the ground up and appears to be doing it again with Bama. Miles can't say hes done that, OSU wasn't even that good of a program. So you can't really make a argument that Miles is a better coach than Saban but their has been some things that Miles has done better and vice versa. They are at least equal. IMO, Saban beats Miles simply because hes built programs, which is huge points in my book.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:27 pm to deuce985
quote:
Saban is a better coach, don't care what anyone says. Hes a program builder, Miles doesn't have that on his list...
Miles built Oklahoma State into a respectable program. It's a lot easier to build at LSU or Alabama than it is at Oklahoma State, so you really can't get much information from comparing those situations.
The easiest and most obvious comparison is between Miles at LSU and Saban in his last two or three years at LSU, after he had the program up and going. By that comparison, Miles has the upper hand, although maybe not by much.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:31 pm to Nuts4LSU
i think a lot of lsu fans forget that saban brought lsu a championship and is a very good coach. i dont get the hate towards the guy. he pretty much kickstarted lsu's current success on the national scene.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:35 pm to Enrique
Sabear brought LSU a half of a championship but built the program into a consistent winner. Still, he lost a game or two every season that made all of us scratch our heads in disbelief. Also, no one kicked his arse out the door at the end of 2004- we spent his entire time in BR listening to his NFL overtures, and quite frankly most LSU fans got tired of that. Sabear is nothing more than an opposing head coach in the same division at Tuscaloser Correctional Institute.
This post was edited on 9/28/08 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:37 pm to deuce985
quote:
Saban has built a program from the ground up and appears to be doing it again with Bama. Miles can't say hes done that, OSU wasn't even that good of a program
Relative to what it was when he took it over, OSU was a VERY good program when Miles left it. You simply cannot compare Oklahoma State to LSU or Alabama. The programs have vastly different circumstances, and it's MUCH easier to build a program at LSU or Alabama.
And Miles has never tried to rebuild a once proud big-time program and failed, so it's not proven that he could not do it. He might be just as good as Saban at doing that, or even better. You just don't know, so there's no real basis for comparison.
The only thing you can fairly safely know is that they faced similar circumstances at LSU during Miles entire tenure and Saban's last two or three years. Saban's first two years were in the building stages, so you can't really hold him responsible for that. If you want to toss out the third year, too (which would be very convenient for Saban), fine, even using only his last two years, Miles has done better.
What's more, Miles has done something harder than build a program...he's maintained and IMPROVED a program that was already doing very well. Lots of coaches have come into a troubled program and rebuilt it quickly. How many have taken over a strong program from the coach who laid the foundation for it and actually improved it from there? Not many.
quote:
Saban beats Miles simply because hes built programs, which is huge points in my book.
So Tom Osborne, who took over an already prosperous program, could never be considered at the level of the best coaches, because he never built a program? Les Miles could win every game for the rest of his career and still never be as good as Saban, because he never built a program (even though he did at Oklahoma State)?
Miles performed better at Oklahoma State than Jimmy Johnson did. So far, he's performed better at LSU than Nick Saban did. I'm satisfied with that, and could not care less if someone's opinion, pulled out of thin air, is that Saban is better.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:39 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Miles built Oklahoma State into a respectable program. It's a lot easier to build at LSU or Alabama than it is at Oklahoma State, so you really can't get much information from comparing those situations. The easiest and most obvious comparison is between Miles at LSU and Saban in his last two or three years at LSU, after he had the program up and going. By that comparison, Miles has the upper hand, although maybe not by much.
Are you serious? Stop, take your P&G glasses off, step back and think about what you just said. OSU might have been a better program when Miles came but they never were a consistent respectable team. They might have made a bowl here and there.
Then you take a look at what Saban did. I seem to remember he inherited a program in a complete mess(much like OSU) and he took that program to a NC, built from the ground up.
Then you try to compare the last three years for the argument? Give me a fricking break, seriously. Miles inherited a NC team. Saban inherited a terrible Alabama team that wasn't even respectable. I agree Miles is a very good coach but their is really no justification anyone can make that hes better than Saban. They're even at least, Saban is better at best. Period.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:43 pm to deuce985
quote:
Saban has built a program from the ground up and appears to be doing it again with Bama. Miles can't say hes done that, OSU wasn't even that good of a program. So you can't really make a argument that Miles is a better coach than Saban but their has been some things that Miles has done better and vice versa. They are at least equal. IMO, Saban beats Miles simply because hes built programs, which is huge points in my book
What program did Saban build from the ground up? Not LSU. LSU had two losing seasons under DiNardo after going winning 10 and 9 games in the two seasons before that. DiNardo had recruited well. LSU had lots of talent when Saban arrived. It wasn't like taking over Kentucky or Vanderbilt, for heaven's sake. Even Alabama was a top 10 team in 2005. And he had some talent when he arrived at Bama too. No knock on Saban. He is an outstanding coach. He certainly improved the program at LSU. He added to it. But others deserve lots of credit in the improvements to facilites, like Emmert, not just Saban. But he didn't build it from the ground up. Nor is he doing that at Bama. Bama had facilities, recruiting base, reputation, etc. They had a series of coaching missteps, like LSU had, but it again, he wasn't having to build a new program or a program like Kentucky or Mississippi State.
Miles became the winningest coach at Ok. State in more than 30 years. That is certainly comparable to what, maybe even more impressive than what Saban did at Michigan State. Not sure why Saban gets credit as a program builder when Miles performed similarly at OSU, but somehow isn't seen as a "program builder."
Different coaches have different strengths. I don't necessarily think one is a better coach than the other. On that point I agree. I don't think that "program builder" is the difference. Both have done it, but Miles simply didn't have to do it LSU, but then Saban didn't have nearly as far to go at LSU than some seem to think.
Miles didn't have to restore or repair LSU, true. But his record at OSU indicates that he could certainly have done so if the situation demanded it.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:44 pm to TigerOnTheProwl
quote:
Sabear brought LSU a half of a championship but built the program into a consistent winner. Still, he lost a game or two every season that made all of us scratch our heads in disbelief.
the UK and Arkansas games last year had me scratching my head in disbelief.
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:49 pm to Enrique
It all about having better players that the other guy
Big programs have the advantage
Coaching matters...a lot, just saying that a lot of games are won in the off season picking up the best talent around the country...then coaching them up to be a wrecking crew on Saturdays
Big programs have the advantage
Coaching matters...a lot, just saying that a lot of games are won in the off season picking up the best talent around the country...then coaching them up to be a wrecking crew on Saturdays
Posted on 9/28/08 at 4:50 pm to Enrique
quote:
the UK and Arkansas games last year had me scratching my head in disbelief.
Exactly. You can go back and forth with the arguments, nobody can really make a claim Miles is better, especially when hes come into a MUCH better situation.
He could of Larry Cokered this great program to shite but he didn't. Hes a great coach no doubt but some of these fans trying to justify Miles as the better coach is ludicrous. And like I've said, if anyone has any right for the argument, its Saban. See what he did at Michigan State, LSU and now Alabama. Not to mention Bama is making a turnaround faster than anyone would've ever expected. Especially with all the young players they have starting...
Posted on 9/28/08 at 5:19 pm to TigerOnTheProwl
Saban just jumped LSU in the AP polls...I would have to say Saban is 100% better than Les...In addition to the fact that Les won the national championship with Saban's recruits...Roll Tide Bitches
Posted on 9/28/08 at 5:28 pm to bamarama
quote:
Tide Bitches
pretty much
Posted on 9/28/08 at 5:41 pm to AlaTiger
yeah sick naban
Posted on 9/28/08 at 5:45 pm to sharkfhin
And Miles is ahead of Sabanazz is the other poll so go back to the bammer boards ya stupid count. Enjoy your beating come november , Reality isn't far away for the bammers..
Posted on 9/28/08 at 5:51 pm to bamarama
Of course Miles did better than Saban with Saban's recruits. Just think what Bama could do in a couple of years with Miles. 
Posted on 9/28/08 at 5:54 pm to bamarama
quote:
In addition to the fact that Les won the national championship with Saban's recruits
...and Nick Saban just jumped LSU in the polls with Shula's players...
...and it goes ON, and ON, and ON......
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