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Is Les Miles worth it? Is LSU getting its money's worth?
Posted on 11/4/10 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 11/4/10 at 5:34 pm
The Les Miles debate rages on the Rant. With some, he cannot win. With some, he cannot lose. There are often those supporters who list his impressive resume. There are those that counter with his last two seasons, and anticipate the same for this season. A commonly used argument goes like this - "For 3.5M, we as fans deserve a better product on the field!". Is that fact? The rest of this post will address that concern.
I analyzed the various coaching achievements around the SEC: Overall wins, conference wins, Divisional Championships, Conference Championships, Bowl Wins, Major Bowl Wins, National Championships, Bowl Appearances, and Major Bowl Appearances. Then, using each coach's 2009 salary, I figured out how much the school is paying per statistic.
Assumptions and notes: 2010 numbers were not used for any calculation of wins or conference wins, and neither was the coach's 2010 salary counted towards total compensation. I also assumed that the coach has been receiving this compensation his entire career. I am sure that is not the case, but I was not going track down the yearly pay for 10 coaches for as much as 9 years. Sorry. Vanderbilt and Tennessee were not used in any calculations because Vandy is private and Tennessee is a clusterfrick. I also used Rich Brooks' salary and numbers instead of Joker Phillips. Only data from Ole Miss was used for Houston Nutt. Salaries were found here: LINK
Also, if a coach did not have a measure in any of the categories, a number is given that shows how many years that coach has to achieve the goal AND stay below Miles' #. i.e., if Miles averages $10,000,000 per SEC Championship, and Mullen has no championships, but gets paid $1,000,000 a year, Mullen must get an SEC Championship in the next 10 years to stay below Miles' current average.
Here are the results, keep in mind that Mullen and Chizik have 1 year of data, and Petrino and Nutt have 2 years, so they may skew results:
Total Compensation
1. Urban Meyer - $4,000,000 for 5 years - $20,000,000
2. Nick Saban - $3,900,000 for 3 years - $11,700,000
3. Les Miles - $3,751,000 for 5 years - $18,755,0004. Mark Richt - $$3,096,876 for 9 years - $27,871,884
5. Bobby Petrino - $2,858,000 for 2 years - $5,716,000
6. Houston Nutt - $2,509,000 for 2 years - $5,018,000
7. Gene Chizik - $2,050,000 for 1 year - $2,050,000
8. Steve Spurrier - $2,031,500 for 5 years - $10,157,500
9. Rich Brooks - $1,617,517 for 7 years - $11,322,619
10. Dan Mullen - $1,200,000 for 1 year - $1,200,000
$ per Total Win
1. $240,000 Dan Mullen, MSU
2. $256,250 Gene Chizik, Auburn
3. $278,778 Houston Nutt, Ole Miss
4. $290,214 Steve Spurrier, USCe
5. $290,324 Rich Brooks, Kentucky
6. $309,688 Mark Richt, UGA
7. $350,877 Urban Meyer, UF
8. $354,545 Nick Saban, Alabama
9. $367,745 Les Miles, LSU
10. $439,692 Bobby Petrino, Arkansas
$ per SEC Win
1. $400,000 Mullen
2. $557,438 Richt
3. $557,556 Nutt
4. $564,306 Spurrier
5. $585,000 Saban
6. $625,000 Meyer
7. $683,333 Chizik
8. $707,664 Brooks
9. $721,346 Miles
10. $1,143,200 Petrino
$ per Divisional Championship (Ties were INCLUDED, although the order does not change if excluded)
1. $5,850,000 Saban
2. $6,666,667 Meyer
3. $6,967,971 Richt
4. $9,377,500 Miles
5. 6.81 years, Mullen
6. 3.57 years, Chizik
7. 1.74 years, Nutt
8. 1.28 years, Petrino
9. (0.38) years, Spurrier
10.(1.20) years, Brooks
$ per Conference Championship
1. $10,000,000 Meyer
2. $11,700,000 Saban
3. $13,935,942 Richt
4. $18,755,000 Miles
5. 14.63 Mullen
6. 8.15 Chizik
7. 5.48 Nutt
8. 4.59 Brooks
9. 4.56 Petrino
10. 4.23 Spurrier
$ per National Championship
1. $10,000,000 Meyer
2. $11,700,000 Saban
3. $18,755,000 Miles
4. 14.63 Mullen
5. 8.15 Chizik
6. 5.48 Nutt
7. 4.59 Brooks
8. 4.56 Petrino
9. 4.23 Spurrier
10. (2.94) Richt
$ per Bowl Win
1. $2,050,000 Chizik
2. $2,509,000 Nutt
3. $3,774,206 Brooks
4. $3,981,698 Richt
5. $4,688,750 Miles
6. $5,000,000 Meyer
7. $5,716,000 Petrino
8. $5,850,000 Saban
9. $10,157,500 Spurrier
10. 2.91 Mullen
$ per Major Bowl win
1. $9,377,500 Miles
2. $10,000,000 Meyer
3. $11,700,000 Saban
4. $13,935,942 Richt
5. 6.81 Mullen
6. 3.57 Chizik
7. 1.74 Nutt
8. 1.28 Petrino
9. (0.38) Spurrier
10. (1.20) Brooks
$ per Bowl Appearance
1. $2,050,000 Chizik
2. $2,509,000 Nutt
3. $2,539,375 Spurrier
4. $2,830,655 Brooks
5. $3,096,876 Richt
6. $3,751,000 Miles
7. $3,900,000 Saban
8. $4,000,000 Meyer
9. $5,716,000 Petrino
10. 2.13 Mullen
$ per Major Bowl Appearance (Sugar, Rose, Fiesta, Orange, National Championship included)
1. $5,850,000 Saban
2. $9,290,628 Richt
3. $9,377,500 Miles
4. $10,000,000 Meyer
5. 6.81 Mullen
6. 3.57 Chizik
7. 1.74 Nutt
8. 1.28 Petrino
9. (0.38) Spurrier
10. (1.20) Brooks
Well, there are all the numbers. No bias, no opinion. Pure facts. Only one question remains; "Is LSU getting its money's worth with Les Miles at HC?"
You decide.
I analyzed the various coaching achievements around the SEC: Overall wins, conference wins, Divisional Championships, Conference Championships, Bowl Wins, Major Bowl Wins, National Championships, Bowl Appearances, and Major Bowl Appearances. Then, using each coach's 2009 salary, I figured out how much the school is paying per statistic.
Assumptions and notes: 2010 numbers were not used for any calculation of wins or conference wins, and neither was the coach's 2010 salary counted towards total compensation. I also assumed that the coach has been receiving this compensation his entire career. I am sure that is not the case, but I was not going track down the yearly pay for 10 coaches for as much as 9 years. Sorry. Vanderbilt and Tennessee were not used in any calculations because Vandy is private and Tennessee is a clusterfrick. I also used Rich Brooks' salary and numbers instead of Joker Phillips. Only data from Ole Miss was used for Houston Nutt. Salaries were found here: LINK
Also, if a coach did not have a measure in any of the categories, a number is given that shows how many years that coach has to achieve the goal AND stay below Miles' #. i.e., if Miles averages $10,000,000 per SEC Championship, and Mullen has no championships, but gets paid $1,000,000 a year, Mullen must get an SEC Championship in the next 10 years to stay below Miles' current average.
Here are the results, keep in mind that Mullen and Chizik have 1 year of data, and Petrino and Nutt have 2 years, so they may skew results:
Total Compensation
1. Urban Meyer - $4,000,000 for 5 years - $20,000,000
2. Nick Saban - $3,900,000 for 3 years - $11,700,000
3. Les Miles - $3,751,000 for 5 years - $18,755,0004. Mark Richt - $$3,096,876 for 9 years - $27,871,884
5. Bobby Petrino - $2,858,000 for 2 years - $5,716,000
6. Houston Nutt - $2,509,000 for 2 years - $5,018,000
7. Gene Chizik - $2,050,000 for 1 year - $2,050,000
8. Steve Spurrier - $2,031,500 for 5 years - $10,157,500
9. Rich Brooks - $1,617,517 for 7 years - $11,322,619
10. Dan Mullen - $1,200,000 for 1 year - $1,200,000
$ per Total Win
1. $240,000 Dan Mullen, MSU
2. $256,250 Gene Chizik, Auburn
3. $278,778 Houston Nutt, Ole Miss
4. $290,214 Steve Spurrier, USCe
5. $290,324 Rich Brooks, Kentucky
6. $309,688 Mark Richt, UGA
7. $350,877 Urban Meyer, UF
8. $354,545 Nick Saban, Alabama
9. $367,745 Les Miles, LSU
10. $439,692 Bobby Petrino, Arkansas
$ per SEC Win
1. $400,000 Mullen
2. $557,438 Richt
3. $557,556 Nutt
4. $564,306 Spurrier
5. $585,000 Saban
6. $625,000 Meyer
7. $683,333 Chizik
8. $707,664 Brooks
9. $721,346 Miles
10. $1,143,200 Petrino
$ per Divisional Championship (Ties were INCLUDED, although the order does not change if excluded)
1. $5,850,000 Saban
2. $6,666,667 Meyer
3. $6,967,971 Richt
4. $9,377,500 Miles
5. 6.81 years, Mullen
6. 3.57 years, Chizik
7. 1.74 years, Nutt
8. 1.28 years, Petrino
9. (0.38) years, Spurrier
10.(1.20) years, Brooks
$ per Conference Championship
1. $10,000,000 Meyer
2. $11,700,000 Saban
3. $13,935,942 Richt
4. $18,755,000 Miles
5. 14.63 Mullen
6. 8.15 Chizik
7. 5.48 Nutt
8. 4.59 Brooks
9. 4.56 Petrino
10. 4.23 Spurrier
$ per National Championship
1. $10,000,000 Meyer
2. $11,700,000 Saban
3. $18,755,000 Miles
4. 14.63 Mullen
5. 8.15 Chizik
6. 5.48 Nutt
7. 4.59 Brooks
8. 4.56 Petrino
9. 4.23 Spurrier
10. (2.94) Richt
$ per Bowl Win
1. $2,050,000 Chizik
2. $2,509,000 Nutt
3. $3,774,206 Brooks
4. $3,981,698 Richt
5. $4,688,750 Miles
6. $5,000,000 Meyer
7. $5,716,000 Petrino
8. $5,850,000 Saban
9. $10,157,500 Spurrier
10. 2.91 Mullen
$ per Major Bowl win
1. $9,377,500 Miles
2. $10,000,000 Meyer
3. $11,700,000 Saban
4. $13,935,942 Richt
5. 6.81 Mullen
6. 3.57 Chizik
7. 1.74 Nutt
8. 1.28 Petrino
9. (0.38) Spurrier
10. (1.20) Brooks
$ per Bowl Appearance
1. $2,050,000 Chizik
2. $2,509,000 Nutt
3. $2,539,375 Spurrier
4. $2,830,655 Brooks
5. $3,096,876 Richt
6. $3,751,000 Miles
7. $3,900,000 Saban
8. $4,000,000 Meyer
9. $5,716,000 Petrino
10. 2.13 Mullen
$ per Major Bowl Appearance (Sugar, Rose, Fiesta, Orange, National Championship included)
1. $5,850,000 Saban
2. $9,290,628 Richt
3. $9,377,500 Miles
4. $10,000,000 Meyer
5. 6.81 Mullen
6. 3.57 Chizik
7. 1.74 Nutt
8. 1.28 Petrino
9. (0.38) Spurrier
10. (1.20) Brooks
Well, there are all the numbers. No bias, no opinion. Pure facts. Only one question remains; "Is LSU getting its money's worth with Les Miles at HC?"
You decide.
This post was edited on 11/4/10 at 6:15 pm
5
Posted on 11/4/10 at 5:46 pm to slackster
Thanks for Braking this down, wow It makes you wonder what the heck People who sign these contracts are thinking...
And to answer your Question, NO Les isn't worth that Money for Sure.
*He doesn't have the Drive or the ability to be a Elite Coach.
*Thanks to a bunch of talent and one Really good Defensive Coordinator he won a BSC Championship ...
And to answer your Question, NO Les isn't worth that Money for Sure.
*He doesn't have the Drive or the ability to be a Elite Coach.
*Thanks to a bunch of talent and one Really good Defensive Coordinator he won a BSC Championship ...
Posted on 11/4/10 at 5:46 pm to slackster
1. What is Les Miles' salary?
2. How much does LSU earn from football each year?
3. Your post is insignificant because all that matters is whether or not LSU profits from Miles' hire.
In any business all that matters is the bottom line.
In any business the value of any person, system, process, etc. is how much does that entity earn for the business.
You must not work in private enterprise.
(edited to add link)
LINK
2. How much does LSU earn from football each year?
3. Your post is insignificant because all that matters is whether or not LSU profits from Miles' hire.
In any business all that matters is the bottom line.
In any business the value of any person, system, process, etc. is how much does that entity earn for the business.
You must not work in private enterprise.
(edited to add link)
LINK
This post was edited on 11/4/10 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 11/4/10 at 5:49 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
3. Your post is insignificant because all that matters is whether or not LSU profits from Miles' hire.
This.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 5:57 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
Your post is insignificant because all that matters is whether or not LSU profits from Miles' hire.
Did you really just say this ... i THINK THAT'S HIS WHOLE REASON FOR WRITE WHAT HE DID, Les is getting ready to start Losing money for the LSU Athletic department .. He has a Really thin line to play with between profit and the RED & with his bonehead coaching I see RED in View ... he has won games he should have lost and we are getting ready for the moments of TRUE in the next 4 games ....
Posted on 11/4/10 at 6:05 pm to 24chevrolet48
quote:
He doesn't have the Drive or the ability to be a Elite Coach.
I believe this.
quote:
In any business all that matters is the bottom line.
Yes he not even a Good Business Manager and LSU is BIG BUSINESS!!!!!
*But I think he's a Good Person.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 6:05 pm to Gray Tiger
Gray Tiger, relax brother. I am not advocating Les Miles termination by any means. These are simply the directly measurable returns of LSU's investment in Miles. I have a fairly steady history of not bashing Miles, but I will say that a LARGE portion of LSU's financial success from football is mostly independent of the head coach, or would continue without Miles. I am not saying that a head coach can't come in and tank it, both on the field and in LSU's pocketbook, but the money lags considerably behind success or failure on the field. Therfore, LSU football's financial condition is not very volatile, or else you would have seen collossal shortfalls in 2008 and 2009.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 6:08 pm to slackster
His contract said he would be paid X if he accomplished Y. He accomplished Y and gets X. EOS.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 6:10 pm to slackster
Not to criticize, but if you're going to put together numbers like this, you really need to include the income of each of these programs. Otherwise your numbers are just all over the place. If you'll notice, every major program in the SEC is towards the top (bottom in your rankings) in terms of how much $$ they give their coaches per win.
On the surface, it's an indictment against Miles. Deeper, it's a testament to the depths of LSU's pockets.
On the surface, it's an indictment against Miles. Deeper, it's a testament to the depths of LSU's pockets.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 6:13 pm to Gaston
Dude, you are truly a football scientist. I like your factual research.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 6:23 pm to chilge1
quote:
If you'll notice, every major program in the SEC is towards the top (bottom in your rankings) in terms of how much $$ they give their coaches per win.
On the surface, it's an indictment against Miles. Deeper, it's a testament to the depths of LSU's pockets.
I agree that it needs to be taken in context. Again, I am not trying to spin this one way or another. However, I believe LSU should be comparable to Alabama and Florida, which pay their coach more, yet tend to outperform Miles on an average basis.
Of course it is ridiculous to expect Mullen to win 1/4 of the games that Meyer wins just because his salary is 1/4 of Meyer's. However, Meyer should win significantly more divisional and conference championships, as well as major bowl games. Most coaches in the SEC are not paid to win games, but rather they are paid to win the big games.
That being said, if LSU expects to be in the elite of the SEC, it should be fair for LSU to grade itself against Florida and Alabama. Unfortunately, using these metrics, LSU does not bode well in comparison.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 6:57 pm to slackster
Miles gets paid 3.7 mil to run a 90 mil business that turns a 40 mil profit.
Seems ok all around to me, but each to our own.
Seems ok all around to me, but each to our own.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 7:10 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
It’s fair to call the Tigers an economic juggernaut
I like the sound of this quote from you link.
quote:
Slackster
As to you OP. I say No.
This post was edited on 11/4/10 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 11/4/10 at 8:09 pm to slackster
quote:
Is Les Miles worth it? Is LSU getting its money's worth?
No.
quote:
slackster
Very impressive analysis. Thanks for taking to the time to compile this data into some usable information. I don't think Lesticles the Economist could have put this together.
Posted on 11/4/10 at 8:39 pm to slackster
I sure wish you or someone would take the time to compare the last 5 LSU football coaches value to the program. It would be nice to see how they compare to Coach Miles.
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