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Message
re: Is Coach O going to "Make LSU Football Great Again!"?
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:26 pm to MOT
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:26 pm to MOT
quote:
Also still waiting for you to mention any ramifications of Orgeron not working out that aren't tied to hiring him cheaper than more qualified candidates.
That's pretty important
The same ramifications would be present if any coach hired didn't work out. Some would be cheaper to fix, others more expensive. But literally any coach that was actually hire-able would have been a gamble. They would either be an expensive gamble or not as expensive a gamble. You seem to think if LSU had just thrown a sack of money at someone it would have been a better hire. I disagree with that theory. What LSU should have done is not pussy-footed around and had a firm replacement when they fired Miles, not fired him in September. I don't agree with the way Alleva handled that, at all, and am also not an Alleva apologist in the least. IMO, Miles' last game should have been the A&M game in 2015. But, that was water under the bridge by the end of the season and Alleva had already made the move. Based on the circumstances when the hire was actually made, it could have been worse.This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 10:28 pm
1
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:31 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Holy shite. If you really believe that then you dont understand cfb coaching.
Its like you dont understand that the qualifications for the lsu job are higher than the qualifications for Vandy's hc job are vastly different.
Funny you keep saying I don't understand college football coaching and then continue to type out stupid shite for everyone to read.
Well, who was the idiot that brought up Vandy and Wake Forest trying to make a point about football coaches? I pointed out that they are both private research universities whose focus is academics. They are not like LSU and Bama who are public universities who would fall off the map entirely without their football teams. Do you dispute anything I posted about Wake and Vandy? If not you should probably drop this stupid argument you are trying to make.
quote:
If youre program hasnt won a conf title in 19 years then sure go ahead and gamble on a 41 year coach that has run a successful side of the ball.
And win a national championship after playing in the championship two years in a row. Bad hire for Clemson?
quote:
If youre a program that has been one of the 5-7 best prograns in cfb since 2000,then hiring a coach that has never ran a successful offense, defense , or program is unacceptable.
Yes it is. LSU just did it. Do you know who the head coach is? I've accepted it. When they called to see if it was alright I told them "sure, go for it." You didn't get a call did you?
So Clemson hires a guy with less credentials than LSU's coach and wins the National Championship and in all your brilliance you think it is a bad hire for both schools. Amazing.
quote:
Please answer this time.... Would bama promote a position coach to hc? Would Ohio State? Would Michigan or amy other blue blood program?
Bama did hire a DL coach as their head coach. I looked at their list of coaches and the fourth or fifth coach before Saban was DuBose who was promoted from DL to HC. He won the SEC in 1999.
If you want to know if there are others you will have to look it up yourself because I don't really care.
Ed Oregon is LSU's head football coach. Period. Nothing you can do about it. Hope your stomach gets better over time or not.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:34 pm to lsufball19
At this point you're just finding new ways to say the same thing. "Rabble, rabble, cheaper, rabble, rabble, rabble, we couldn't do any better".
It's a simple question. What happens if Orgeron doesn't work out and has to be fired, outside of us paying a cheaper buyout?
It's a simple question. What happens if Orgeron doesn't work out and has to be fired, outside of us paying a cheaper buyout?
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:35 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Bama did hire a DL coach as their head coach. I looked at their list of coaches and the fourth or fifth coach before Saban was DuBose who was promoted from DL to HC. He won the SEC in 1999.
Nebraska also hired their RB coach, Frank Solich, to replace Tom Osborne, and he won the Big 12 and the Fiesta Bowl with a 12-1 record in 1999 and played for the national title 2 years later. But no, blue blood programs never promote position coaches to HC
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 10:48 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:37 pm to MOT
quote:
It's a simple question. What happens if Orgeron doesn't work out and has to be fired, outside of us paying a cheaper buyout?
it would be bad. I mean what do you want me to say? It's a stupid question. It would literally be the same answer for any coach that was hired to replace Miles. The narrative would be "LSU fired a NC winning coach and hired a guy that sucked." It wouldn't matter if that coach was Ed Orgeron or Tom Herman or whoever else you can come up with. If he didn't work out, it wouldn't be good. The ramifications, however, would be worse if you spent more money on the front end because you wouldn't be able to replace him as easily, mitigating your damages. I apologize for presenting you with such a complex issue for you to sort out in your head.
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:38 pm to lsufball19
quote:
y successful? Herman has two years experience as a HC, one successful the other not so successful.
Compared to Coach O's HC tenure its very successful.
Herman's worst year at Houston had 1 less win than Coach O's entire ole miss tenure.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:39 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Herman's worst year at Houston had 1 less win than Coach O's entire ole miss tenure.
was Tom Herman worth the price tag? Had he done enough to pay him that type of money?
I don't even know why Herman seems to be the name we keep coming back to. He was never coming here and we were never outbidding Texas.
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:41 pm to lsufball19
quote:
s Tom Herman worth the price tag?
Never said he was.
But there should be dozens of coaches i between herman and Coach O.
Literally dozens.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:43 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Bama did hire a DL coach as their head coach. I
They were on probation and they immediately regretted it because, in 4 years, bama won more than 7 games 1 time.
quote:
Frank Solich,
He was the head coach of the freshn team for 4 years.
Congrats on listing 2 coaches that didn't win a national title.
Im still waiting on you to lost another title winning career dline coach.
Mike Dubose at bama
1997-4 wins
1998-7 wins
1999- 10 wins
2000-3 wins
Is this what youre calling a successful tenure from a position coach?
Frank Solich won the conf title 1 time.
Are these the national title winning coaches you'retalking about?
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:43 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
But there should be dozens of coaches i between herman and Coach O.
Name the coaches that would have been a better hire for our situation that would have realistically come to LSU. Dozens is not an answer. And for each of the coaches you name, please explain why they would have been a better option. And this doesn't just mean "herp derp, they've been a coordinator before." Much more was at stake than being able to call football plays.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:44 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Bama did hire a DL coach as their head coach. I looked at their list of coaches and the fourth or fifth coach before Saban was DuBose who was promoted from DL to HC. He won the SEC in 1999.
Yes, he won it in 1999. Then was fired less than 12 months later for going 3-8 and they subsequently lost 21 scholarships for violations that occurred on his watch.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:46 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Conhrats on listing 2 coaches that didn't win a national title
There are like 4 active coaches that have. In the modern era of college football, there aren't that many who have. If those are your parameters, then you're destined to be unhappy. I'm going to assume you were a big Les Miles fanboyPosted on 1/23/17 at 10:46 pm to Rickdaddy4188
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:47 pm to MOT
quote:
they subsequently lost 21 scholarships for violations that occurred on his watch.
because Alabama started cheating when Dubose took over
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:47 pm to lsufball19
quote:
it would be bad. I mean what do you want me to say? It's a stupid question. It would literally be the same answer for any coach that was hired to replace Miles. The narrative would be "LSU fired a NC winning coach and hired a guy that sucked." It wouldn't matter if that coach was Ed Orgeron or Tom Herman or whoever else you can come up with. If he didn't work out, it wouldn't be good. The ramifications, however, would be worse if you spent more money on the front end because you wouldn't be able to replace him as easily, mitigating your damages. I apologize for presenting you with such a complex issue for you to sort out in your head.
You've written about 6 novels in response to this question and never mentioned it, so I'll have to ask it outright. Do you not think Joe Alleva should be held accountable (assuming the rest of the school leadership is as incompetent as he is and he is still employed at that time)?
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:52 pm to MOT
quote:
Do you not think Joe Alleva should be held accountable (assuming the rest of the school leadership is as incompetent as he is and he is still employed at that time)?
Joe Alleva should be held accountable for plenty. If this hire doesn't work out, sure. However, I'll ask the same question to you. Shouldn't he be held accountable regardless? Let's say he did go out and pay Herman 30 million over 6 years and it blew up in his face. Does the fact he showed how big his dick was and spend more money make it a better hire and lessen his acountability? Are hires not judged based on their results? Alleva has botched more than the timing of firing Les Miles. He has much more on his plate than that. I could write a much longer novel on why he should be fired (and never hired in the first place)
But, as it speaks for mitigating damages for LSU specifically, LSU would be in much, much more dire straits if they paid big money and that hire still sucked. You keep dodging this as if you're incapable of not being argumentative. IMO, no coach that was available was worth that type of financial gamble. Orgeron was a "'safer" hire in that regard. You are entitled to disagree with that
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 10:57 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Name the coaches that would have been a better hire for our situation that would have realistically come to LSU.
Any successful coordinator.
We have no idea who wouldve come here because Alleva went from the 2 most obvious candidates to ed orgeron.
quote:
Dozens is not an answer. A
bullshite. There are literally dozens of coordinators( that have a better resume than Coach O) that wouldve jumped at the chance to come to lsu.
quote:
And for each of the coaches you name, please explain why they would have been a better option
Because those coaches wouldve proven they can run a successful offense, defense , or program.
You clearly dont get it.
Matt Canada and Dave Aranda wouldve been better options.
When i say Coach O has never ran a successful offense, defense , or program do you think thats my opinion?
quote:
And this doesn't just mean "herp derp, they've been a coordinator before."
Wow. Any successful coordinator has proven more than Coach O.
quote:
Much more was at stake than being able to call football plays.
Please enlighten me to what Ed orgeron has done to prove he can run a successful program. His only tenure running a program was the worst tenure in ole miss history.
There is a reason you rarely see career position coaches getting big time hc jobs. Its because a coach shouldve proven he can run a side of the ball or a program.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:01 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Let's say he did go out and pay Herman 30 million over 6 years and it blew up in his face. Does the fact he showed how big his dick was and spend more money make it a better hire and lessen his acountability?
He wouldve at least gambled his future on a coach that has prove he can run the offense and that he can run a program. At this point Coach O has done neither.
quote:
Are hires not judged based on their results?
You have to be kidding.
Coaches are judged on their past.
Are you really saying hiring a coach that has never proven he can run a program is considered just as good a hire as hiring a coach that proven he can win national titles? When CfB programs are deemed to have made a good hire its because of what the coach has already accomplished.
Saban was a homerun hire because he had proven to be an elite dc in the nfl and an elite hc in cfb.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:06 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
They were on probation and they immediately regretted it because, in 4 years, bama won more than 7 games 1 time.
Arguing in circles are we? You seemed to think Bama and the other two schools you listed WOULD NEVER hire a position coach as their head coach. It was a simple and quick search to find one. Now you are making excuses about WHY he was hired. And listing his records. I con't care if you have his dental records, he was Alabama's D-line coach when Alabama hired him to be their head coach. Just like Coach O was hired from D-Line coach to be LSU's head coach.
I get it, you hate Coach O and don't want his as head coach.
I on the other hand like Coach O and after the changes that have been evident with the LSU program since he has been in charge I am damn glad he is the coach.
quote:
Frank Solich won the conf title 1 time. Are these the national title winning coaches you'retalking about?
You weren't replying to me but since I am the only one to mention a NC coach in this thread - the national championship coach talked about is the career WR coach - Dabo Swinney who just beat Bama a couple weeks ago to win the 2016 national championship.
You asked for position coaches who were promoted by major programs to head coach. You got them, quit crawdadding.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:10 pm to MOT
quote:
Yes, he won it in 1999. Then was fired less than 12 months later for going 3-8 and they subsequently lost 21 scholarships for violations that occurred on his watch.
So freaking what. Was he not a D-line coach that was promoted to the head coach for the Alabama program. The question was has any of these three programs promoted a position coach. The answer is YES.
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