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re: I could only imagine the rant had lsu hired a d.c. from a 5-7
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:24 pm to KappaSwig
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:24 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
I wish some of you "but he has no HC experience" people would explain to me the significant difference being a HC at a middling school like Utah or Boise or Bowling Green (or anywhere outside the SEC) makes over being a top DC at 3 separate big time programs (2 in the SEC), 2 of which went to the Nat. Championship? He recruits well, is an SEC guy with significant ties to the Southeast, and is a solid coach.
think josh mcdaniels. you have to be able to run the entire team. offense, special teams, defense, media, recruiting, off the field issues, manage other coaches ect.
Josh mcdaniels was a great o.c. on a super bowl team. he get's hired as a h.c. with a team who has a great offense and poor defense. what does he do? changing the offense, doesn't address the d, two years he's fired. he's an OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR, not a head coach.
you hire a guy like urban from a mid tier program. he has experience with running a program. not a specialty unit within the program.
head coaches are born. They are like qbs, it's hard to identify/evaluate who has that ability to manage all aspects and who doesn't.
1
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:27 pm to Swat5
quote:
What was the Texas offense ranked? Cause our offense wasnt gonna win a beauty contest in Mississippi.... ...and we went 10-2 with a tougher schedule...
Texas's offense was ranked #59 in total offense, #86 in scoring offense (mostly due to almost being dead last in the country in turnover margin).
And Sagarin put Texas's SOS at #22, LSU's at #24 btw.
That being said, you guys overachieved this year. 'Grats.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:32 pm to aggiegirl2005
quote:
And Sagarin put Texas's SOS at #22, LSU's at #24 btw
Hmmm..i could have sworn i saw LSU's SOS at #8 just a few weeks ago. I have a hard time believing UT's SOS was better...but whatever.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:38 pm to dos crystal
quote:
head coaches are born. They are like qbs, it's hard to identify/evaluate who has that ability to manage all aspects and who doesn't.
So if they're "born" and you only have to identify them, how do you identify them other than giving them a job? Whether that job is at a school like Fla or a school like Utah shouldn't matter? They'll succeed at whatever level. I think its more important to hire good coordinators and you can attend to things like recruiting, media, etc.
there is no doubt muschamp is a gamble, but what hire isn't a gamble? I think with his resume, Fla's talent and how down the East is right now, chances are he succeeds. But the idea that he is a bigger risk simply because he has never been a HC doesn't really hold that much water with me given all his other credentials.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:38 pm to aggiegirl2005
quote:
And Sagarin put Texas's SOS at #22, LSU's at #24 btw.
Where is the link? Knowing who LSU played vs who UT played that seems really fricked up.
edit: LINK
TAMU is #11.
Seems just a bit out of wack. This post was edited on 12/13/10 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:39 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
Look at Chizik - one player later and the guy has gone from despised by his own fanbase to the National Championship game.
Look at Kiffin... Look at Chizik... THESE guys know how to succeed as a first-year coach in the SEC
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:54 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
So if they're "born" and you only have to identify them, how do you identify them other than giving them a job? Whether that job is at a school like Fla or a school like Utah shouldn't matter?
quote:
there is no doubt muschamp is a gamble, but what hire isn't a gamble?
this is the kicker. yes it's a gamble. however, when you are a florida, do you make a bigger gamble on muschamp over a mullen, petrino, kyle w.? it appears those guys know how to run a program. It doesn't mean muschamp wont or cant. it's why go after the unknown when you can have someone who has demonstrated that ability versus someone who hasn't.
if your miss st, kentucky or something. go coordinator. you florida, you go prior h.c.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 2:56 pm to chilge1
quote:
Look at Kiffin... Look at Chizik... THESE guys know how to succeed as a first-year coach in the SEC
Kiffin was a disaster hire largely because of cultural reasons. Hiring Muschamp is about as far from hiring Lane Kiffin than you can imagine.
Fla is in much better shape talent/player wise than Auburn was a year ago (Cam Newton?). All it took for Chizik was to ride the Newton horse. Fla has a lot of talent right now. I know I'll get rape for this, but its kind of like following Saban; I think you'd have to be pretty bad to screw up what Fla has going right now. I don't see any indications of Muschamp being THAT bad, HC or not.
This post was edited on 12/13/10 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:01 pm to dos crystal
quote:
it's why go after the unknown when you can have someone who has demonstrated that ability versus someone who hasn't.
Pure speculation but I think Mullen and Petrino were long shots. Mullen is in the second year at MSU and Petrino isn't likely going anywhere for some time. Muschamp probably emerged given those facts. As for Whittingham, I'd take SEC experience/roots/ties any day over someone from Utah, HC or not. I don't see Muschamp as that big of a gamble SIMPLY because he hasn't been a HC.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:10 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
As for Whittingham, I'd take SEC experience/roots/ties any day over someone from Utah, HC or not.
so you wouldn't have gone after saban or myer? neither had s.e.c. experience. one from utah one from mich. state. They happen to be the two most successful coaches in the s.e.c., S.O.S. is third, he started at duke as h.c., miles is probably 4th, oklahoma st.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:14 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
All it took for Chizik was to ride the Newton horse.
Actually, the point in mentioning them was to provide a highlight reel of what NOT to do in the SEC. I don't get why Chizik is any better of a hire now than he was the day of.
7-6 his first year
13-0 currently
staring down a losing season next year...
So he's going to have two seasons where he'll be lucky to maintain .500 and a season that's going to be forever tainted by the pay-for-play scam... Auburn getting the hammer from the NCAA notwithstanding.
Point is, REALLY shouldn't use Chizik as a point of reference for how to run an SEC program.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:28 pm to Prominentwon
quote:
Florida is a job where they could probably hire anyone.
yet, they go for Muschamp. An unproved coach with no head coaching experience.
Middle of the road hire. They better hope it doesn't turn out like the last time that happened.
Muschamp must give one hell of an interview OR is one of the biggest "Up the Wazoo" smoke blowers of all time. We'll all find out soon enough............
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:41 pm to dos crystal
quote:
so you wouldn't have gone after saban or myer?
I didn't say that (or don't mean to say that). My only point is that I also would not rule out Muschamp simply because he hasn't been a HC like you're suggesting. I don't agree with the "HC or bust" logic partly because I think his resume has some factors that balance his lack of HC experience.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:46 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
didn't say that (or don't mean to say that). My only point is that I also would not rule out Muschamp simply because he hasn't been a HC like you're suggesting. I don't agree with the "HC or bust" logic partly because I think his resume has some factors that balance his lack of HC experience.
fair enough.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:49 pm to dos crystal
They last two major hires in the SEC, Tennessee and now Florida, are just down right strange.
Both may turn out great, but major gambles in my book.
Add to that the USC hire last year and I'm sooooooooooooo glad LSU isn't out there with them
Both may turn out great, but major gambles in my book.
Add to that the USC hire last year and I'm sooooooooooooo glad LSU isn't out there with them
Posted on 12/13/10 at 3:56 pm to aggiegirl2005
quote:
aggiegirl2005
So did you so congrats to you too...
Posted on 12/13/10 at 4:07 pm to lsuman242
Thanks...if that wasn't mean sarcastically. I certainly didn't mean it sarcastically when I said it!
Posted on 12/13/10 at 4:15 pm to dos crystal
Muschamp will be exceptional at Florida.
-He's got the pedigree.
-He's been highly sought after by multiple successful coaches... Saban had him, then Tubbs at Auburn and then Mack Brown.
-He's an outstanding recruiter and very charismatic.
-He's a good motivator.
Could he fail? Sure.
But head coaching experience isn't always the slam dunk thing required for a successful head coach.
-Mike Tomlin is one of the best coaches in the NFL... was a coordinator for one whole year.
-Chip Kelly has done phenomenal work at Oregon... as only a coordinator before.
-Sean Payton was even a lackluster OC and a mere positional coach before getting the head job in New Orleans.
Head coaching "experience" as an indicator of success is largely overrated I'd say.
-He's got the pedigree.
-He's been highly sought after by multiple successful coaches... Saban had him, then Tubbs at Auburn and then Mack Brown.
-He's an outstanding recruiter and very charismatic.
-He's a good motivator.
Could he fail? Sure.
But head coaching experience isn't always the slam dunk thing required for a successful head coach.
-Mike Tomlin is one of the best coaches in the NFL... was a coordinator for one whole year.
-Chip Kelly has done phenomenal work at Oregon... as only a coordinator before.
-Sean Payton was even a lackluster OC and a mere positional coach before getting the head job in New Orleans.
Head coaching "experience" as an indicator of success is largely overrated I'd say.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 4:42 pm to OBUDan
quote:
-Mike Tomlin is one of the best coaches in the NFL... was a coordinator for one whole year.
-Chip Kelly has done phenomenal work at Oregon... as only a coordinator before.
-Sean Payton was even a lackluster OC and a mere positional coach before getting the head job in New Orleans.
Not that I disagree with your point, but you can't use two NFL coaches to justify that claim, the game simply doesn't transition like that from college to pro.
Posted on 12/13/10 at 5:05 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Head coaching "experience" as an indicator of success is largely overrated I'd say.
Agreed! While I won't go so far to say the hire is "exceptional" (but only because its too early to tell), I think the chances are that he will be very successful there (again not as fast as Meyer unless he gets another Tebow). I would love him at LSU!
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