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Started By
Message
re: Did JJ look faster?
Posted on 10/6/11 at 2:55 pm to Mayhawman
Posted on 10/6/11 at 2:55 pm to Mayhawman
quote:
quote:
And other delusionals are picking the final five games after a season of experience to prove him better than Lee.
If Lee wasn't a 5th Sr, I'd agree.
So it is an attempt to belittle Lee. Got it. You don't think he has the capacity to improve, but JJ does.
We know where you stand now.
1
Posted on 10/6/11 at 2:55 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Players get better over the course of their career.
Which goes against your argument wanting to compare JJ's 12th game to lee's 5th game.
It's intellectually dishonest.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 2:58 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Try wording your post to mean what you say, if you don't want people to take it literally.
Try improving your reading comprehension.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 2:59 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Does Tom Brady suck every year at the beginning of the season and then slowly begin to get better.
Interpret this.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 2:59 pm to Rudy40
quote:
Again only if you are cherry picking games to try and get the most favorable comparison for JJ.
L
O
L
Rudy, you are the king of cherry picking stats. You have no business calling anyone else out for cherry picking anything.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:00 pm to CptBengal
quote:
If you say it is wrong to comapre them due to different competions, different personnel, differnt teams, etc, then that's exactly what you are saying. If there is no commonality of factor in what you are comparing you have nothing to differentiate, as there would be no shared metric on which to evaluate a variance.
I didn't mean to imply such.
It just seems to me the data in this cases isn't valid because the variables are so different.
If Gary Crowton had come back, it seems like there could be a better argument made.
quote:
You have to accept that there is inherent bias in the structure in order to make ANY comparison in things like sports, where the variables are innumerable and constantly change. Accepting assumptions allows you to make those comparisons.
Right, but I don't see how that makes 1st 5 games 2010 to 1st 5 games 2011 any more valid of a comparison than say "1st 5 games of 2010" and "5 random games of 2005."
Your argument seems to be time frame (maybe I misconstrued), but considering the difference in opponents, travel, etc. not to mention all the changes to the team itself, would seem to render any data taken from that as inconsequential, if not meaningless.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:00 pm to TheDoc
quote:
Which goes against your argument wanting to compare JJ's 12th game to lee's 5th game.
It's intellectually dishonest.
How so? I am not trying to say JJ is better than Lee right now. None of us have any idea. I said the best way to compare them is to look at where they were as QB's the most recent times we saw them. Only one way to determine who is better IMO. Watch on Saturday's and see who plays.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:01 pm to RogerTheShrubber
holy shite. you people are still arguing over this shite. 
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:01 pm to TheDoc
To me none of us have a clue of who is really the better QB. Only way to know would be if they ran the same offense. Even last year under Crowton they ran different offenses. JJ would run more deep drops, roll outs and zone reads while JL ran more quick passing plays and handoffs.
It really comes down to what the coaches want to run and who is best to run it. I don't want to see JL rolling out anymore b/c he didn't look good last week. I don't think wind was the reason either. I would think we will see it split 60-40 depending on who is more effective each game.
It really comes down to what the coaches want to run and who is best to run it. I don't want to see JL rolling out anymore b/c he didn't look good last week. I don't think wind was the reason either. I would think we will see it split 60-40 depending on who is more effective each game.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Interpret this.
Taking a commonly know athlete to compare to a totally different situation. You say the best way to compare where JJ is today is to look at where he was at this time last year. It's almost as assinine as comparing where Lee was his freshman year to where he is now. IMO of course.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:03 pm to Topwater Trout
No more roll outs for lee
JJ looked good running against UK
JJ looked good running against UK
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:04 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Taking a commonly know athlete to compare to a totally different situation.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
quote:
You say the best way to compare where JJ is today is to look at where he was at this time last year.
Link??? Where in the hell did I do this?
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:04 pm to TheDoc
quote:
No more roll outs for lee
This.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:05 pm to TheDoc
quote:
No more roll outs for lee
JJ looked good running against UK
As long as the coaches play to each of their strengths I think we will be good.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:08 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
As long as the coaches play to each of their strengths I think we will be good.
Definitely. Please, don't try any option plays with lee. Leave those to JJ. JJ also does better on the play action roll out passes. Lee is the better pocket passer.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:09 pm to Rudy40
quote:
Again only if you are cherry picking games to try and get the most favorable comparison for JJ.
No matter the method, any time you try to "choose" a set of five games to judge Jefferson on from 2010, there is going to be some bias.
I don't think comparing the first five games of last season to the first five games of this season does much of anything because of the numerous amount of changes that have transpired in the offense.
That being said, I don't think comparing Jefferson's last five games to Lee's first five games this season does any better either.
College sports aren't like businesses. There are too many variables that change week to week much less year to year to try and select small points of data to compare.
My stance on the Jefferson thing is that if you look at his entire career as a whole, the first six games of 2010 are much more of anomaly than the standard. The back half of the season only lends credence to this theory.
It's not much different that baseball players who go through slumps except that it is just magnified much more because of the limited amount of opportunities available in football.
quote:
Even with the last 5 games included which were easily JJ's best games (though ULM was really bad and Arky very mediocre) only got JJ up to the 100th rated qb out of 116 and the 11th out of 12 rated qb in the SEC for the season. Wanna bet Lee never gets even close to numbers that bad this year???
What you fail to acknowledge here is that even with the perception of Lee's outstanding play in 2010, he still would have been rated only the #83 passer in the country.
It's even worse when you split the season.
In the first seven games, Lee would have ranked as the #52 passer in the country. Jefferson would have ranked as the #117 passer in the country.
In the last six games, Lee would have ranked as the #120 passer in the country and Jefferson would have ranked as the #19 passer in the country (and that doesn't include the Cotton Bowl.)
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:11 pm to BeeFense5
quote:
JJ also does better on the play action roll out passes.
Totally disagree. Did you watch the WVU game?
JJ isn't a pure pocket passer and does better with the pass out of the pocket, but until I see him run the play action this year, I certainly am not going to make statements such as the above. JJ is much better at the read option however.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
but until I see him run the play action this year
He was incredibly accurate on play action passes last season. We just never fricking ran them.
And now I feel a Crowton rant coming on.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:12 pm to BeeFense5
quote:
Definitely. Please, don't try any option plays with lee. Leave those to JJ. JJ also does better on the play action roll out passes. Lee is the better pocket passer.
If we weren't slow at work I wouldn't even get involved in these threads. I think the coaching staff has got it under control. We will see both in every game unless one gets hurt. It isn't perfect but they both have strengths and weaknesses. Luckily ones strength is the others weakness and vice versa.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 3:13 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
To me none of us have a clue of who is really the better QB.
I don't think either is any better than the other. They each have different strengths and weaknesses.
JJ has the better arm and is a better downfield passer, plus his running skills. He holds the ball too long and makes bad decisions.
Lee is more effective at short routes and getting rid of the ball quickly. He's shown the ability to read and beat the blitz. He also makes bad decisions.
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