re: Brian Kelly vs Les Miles CFB HOF

quote:

---

Except its not.

The first thing anyone does when talking about the best teams to win a national championship during the playoff era is eliminate 2007 LSU, the only two-loss champion, from consideration. Does that mean the 2007 team couldn't have beaten some of the other, more highly regarded champions? Sadly, the answer is no. It means 2007 LSU underperformed so badly that it needed several unlikely breaks to back into the BCS title game. Trying to make sense of that season was like trying to break down the substance of a Les Miles press conference.

---

Yep. You saw the real Les Miles when he didn't have the benefit of Saban's players when he was at Okie State & Kansas. Les Miles is a career 31-39 outside of LSU.

quote:

---

You're really going to die on the hill of defending Les?

---

Ok don't answer my question.. I didn't even mention Les in that last post. I just wanted to know which of BK's post season wins is the most impressive to you. I mean since he's such an elite coach, surely there are one or two impressive bowl game wins that stick out to you?

There's a ton of context needed for your post that I'll attempt to provide.

quote:

---

Les was 38-14 his last four seasons at LSU (not including the season he was fired due to the fact he didn't finish it) his worst finish during that time was 8-5. 8-5 while not veing what LSU grew to expect during his tenure was better than all but two of O's seasons.

---

You used a key word there, expectation. When you have much, much is to be expected of you. That was the issue with Les. It wasn't that he didn't win games, a fair amount of games even. It was that given the state of the program he inherited, he underachieved.

quote:

---

Les ran some of the more successful offenses and defenses in LSU history, not everything worked but it wasn't for a lack of effort. Hell, Crowton & Cameron were both seen at the time as innovative offensive guys who were supposed to elevate LSU, same with Canada at the time. The moves didn't work but they were generally praised that the time of them happening. People forget Lee, Harris, Jefferson, etc were all 4* QB's and just didn't develop. Now is that Les, the OC, the QB coach? I wasn't on the team and couldn't tell you the answer to that.

---

Think about that line of thinking though. You had multiple, at the time, innovative minds that came through the program to run the offense to be paired with at least somewhat highly recruited QB's and it consistently seemed to not work. Is that the fault of everyone else? Were all of those coaches bums and those QB's busts or do we look at who was the common denominator among all of that underachievement?

And if they were bums and busts, why did Miles hire/recruit them?

quote:

---

Les gets so much unwanted hate and his issues with liking pretty girls along with no suing the University have turned him into villian #1 for many fans. Les was a good coach at LSU for 12 seasons who had LSU at one of its longest sustained successful periods. It wasn't always pretty but it was effective and from all accounts Les was a likeable guy around town.

---

Depends on your definition of good. Les managed to win big early but still had some baffling losses. He then managed to start losing games in inexplicable fashion with clock issues that he never seemed to rectify. He regressed as a coach as time went on.

quote:

---

Most of the people shitting on him have revionist history (like the other poster said) of Les and would swear his tenure was worse than Hallmans and that Saban was the only reason for his success.

---

Has Les ever built a program that wasn't already running for him? His best years were early with a program that was ready to roll waiting for him and outside of the anomaly of 2011, most of which was due to John Chavis' defense, he never could get the program back to where it belonged in large part because of his offensive philosophy and inability to develop a QB.

quote:

---

Saban left a lot of talent for Miles, Miles left a lot of talent for O.... O left some talent but a thin roster for Kelly but thanks to new rules with transfer portal Kelly has been able to overcome it.

---

O left an abject disaster for Brian Kelly. We started a friggin wide receiver at QB because the roster was in such shambles.


Brian Kelly, who inherited the worst state of the LSU football program in decades, is on pace to have a better record in his first 4 seasons than Miles had in his last 4.

quote:

---

You saw the real Les Miles when he didn't have the benefit of Saban's players when he was at Okie State & Kansas. Les Miles is a career 31-39 outside of LSU.

---

Yes, he took over a loaded roster. He also won at least 2 more games in each of his first three seasons with that roster than Saban did in his last year. If you want to compare his career to Saban's as a coach, it is no comparison. But it is extremely lazy to say his success at LSU is due to Saban's players, when he averaged 10 wins a season over 11 seasons. While playing AGAINST Saban's players in 9 of those seasons.

quote:

---

You used a key word there, expectation. When you have much, much is to be expected of you. That was the issue with Les. It wasn't that he didn't win games, a fair amount of games even. It was that given the state of the program he inherited, he underachieved

---

underachieving? ?? Les had like 5 straight season of 11 wins and led LSU after Katrina where they played 12 straight. You could say those last four were underachieving based on his previous 8 seasons. I will give that but to say his entire tenure wss underachieving is just comical.

quote:

---

Think about that line of thinking though. You had multiple, at the time, innovative minds that came through the program to run the offense to be paired with at least somewhat highly recruited QB's and it consistently seemed to not work. Is that the fault of everyone else? Were all of those coaches bums and those QB's busts or do we look at who was the common denominator among all of that underachievement?

And if they were bums and busts, why did Miles hire/recruit them?

---

if those coaches had success elsewhere, I'd get it but they didn't. They came with hype and faltered. Hey guess what it happens to coaches as their assistants find success and leave. Even Saban at Alabama had some lackluster seasons under new coordinators where they didn't win the National Championship.

quote:

---

Depends on your definition of good. Les managed to win big early but still had some baffling losses. He then managed to start losing games in inexplicable fashion with clock issues that he never seemed to rectify. He regressed as a coach as time went on.

---

you don't "accidently" win over 110 games in a 10 year period if you are a bad coach. Even with the talent located in the state. Les was the same coach when he left as he was at the start as far as clock management. Issue is LSU fans had higher expectations by the end of his tenure. This board was a prime example as 11+ wins was the expectation. With Kelly you've had countless saying 8 wins would be a great season at the start of each season, then when he surpassed that they came and said how great of a coach he wawas.

quote:

---

Has Les ever built a program that wasn't already running for him? His best years were early with a program that was ready to roll waiting for him and outside of the anomaly of 2011, most of which was due to John Chavis' defense, he never could get the program back to where it belonged in large part because of his offensive philosophy and inability to develop a QB.

---

Oklahoma State was a shite hole before Les arrived and he made them relevant which Gundy then took to a higher level. Having success over 11 freaking seasons is building. It's not like O where once certain players left the team from the previous regime they fell apart. Les kept them as a top 5 team in the nation. Your hate or disgust and giving people like Chavis more credit kinda show this. You are willing g to give anyone else but Les Miles credit for the success of the program over those years.

quote:

---

O left an abject disaster for Brian Kelly. We started a friggin wide receiver at QB because the roster was in such shambles.


Brian Kelly, who inherited the worst state of the LSU football program in decades, is on pace to have a better record in his first 4 seasons than Miles had in his last 4.

---

nah O left LSU with multiple QB's one just transferred before the bowl game the the current starter refused to play in the bowl game. Kelly is 20-7 in two years. Les went 38-14 his last four, so Kelly needs to go 9-3 which should be bottom of the barrel for an LSU team. Of course Kelly could go 10-4 in back to back seasons and finish 40-15 which means he would be 1 game better than Les's last 4 which LSU fans absolutely hated.



I can agree it was time for Les to go but sit there and act like he sucked at LSU and LSU won despite is just plain ignorance. Les wasn't Saban, yet Les may be the second or third best coach in LSU history. He won and he won a lot with a lot of different coordinators and players. The people that can't accept that is baffling as they rewrite and make excuses to try and discredit what he did accomplish.

quote:

---

Any coach that is a human scum should automatically be disqualified

---

You would empty out half the HOF if you did so. Not excusing what Miles did, but he isn't up for some humanitarian award or a Nobel peace prize. It is for coaching football in a system that has been corrupt since its inception.

I do not understand this board's mentality on this. It makes no sense. If it was so easy to win a NC then why are much better coaches than Les/Orgeron with equally as good resources not doing it? A moron does not win the NC. I hate to tell you but if you think luck is the sole reason you're very misguided. EVERY coach has to rely on some luck to get to a NC like avoiding injuries.


It doesn't matter what you think about him as a gameday coach he still heavily contributed to that NC for a multitude of reasons. To say otherwise is just being extremely disingenuous.


BK did not exactly have a complete lack of resources at ND and does he have one when this board thinks he's way better than the previous 2 guys? Not knocking him I'm just putting it into perspective at how difficult it is to do. Les was a much better coach than this board gives him credit to even with all his flaws.

quote:

---

Yes, he took over a loaded roster. He also won at least 2 more games in each of his first three seasons with that roster than Saban did in his last year. If you want to compare his career to Saban's as a coach, it is no comparison. But it is extremely lazy to say his success at LSU is due to Saban's players, when he averaged 10 wins a season over 11 seasons. While playing AGAINST Saban's players in 9 of those seasons.

---

Les took over a program that had just won a natty the year prior and had a young and loaded roster.


Answer me this, if Les took over for O in a theoretical universe and had the situation Kelly took on, what’s Les’ win total look like? We’ve seen Les when he has to build his own program. He can’t do it. He rode the wave of momentum Saban built and eventually that wave ran out of juice and Les didn’t have the chops to get it going again, in large part due to his stubbornness offensively which handcuffed this program for the half a decade.

quote:

---

underachieving? ?? Les had like 5 straight season of 11 wins and led LSU after Katrina where they played 12 straight. You could say those last four were underachieving based on his previous 8 seasons. I will give that but to say his entire tenure wss underachieving is just comical.

---

Yes, he underachieved relative to what he had at his disposal. The fact he couldn’t lose less than 2 from 05-07 is pathetic given the roster he had.
It’s honestly hard for me to fathom people defending Les Miles. Between the wasted offensive talent and the absolute moronic blowing of games LSU had no business losing are more than enough to show his incompetence.

quote:

---

if those coaches had success elsewhere, I'd get it but they didn't. They came with hype and faltered. Hey guess what it happens to coaches as their assistants find success and leave. Even Saban at Alabama had some lackluster seasons under new coordinators where they didn't win the National Championship.

---

Bro, Miles’ offenses kept LSU in the Stone Age. He WAS the problem.

quote:

---

you don't "accidently" win over 110 games in a 10 year period if you are a bad coach. Even with the talent located in the state. Les was the same coach when he left as he was at the start as far as clock management. Issue is LSU fans had higher expectations by the end of his tenure. This board was a prime example as 11+ wins was the expectation. With Kelly you've had countless saying 8 wins would be a great season at the start of each season, then when he surpassed that they came and said how great of a coach he wawas.

---

Of course the expectation was 11+ wins because he was more talented than just about everyone except Bama. Kelly had different expectations because he was absolutely not as talented as 3-4 teams in the schedule. Les didn’t have to overcome that talent disparity and the season he did, LSU would lose 4-5 games.

quote:

---

Oklahoma State was a shite hole before Les arrived and he made them relevant which Gundy then took to a higher level. Having success over 11 freaking seasons is building. It's not like O where once certain players left the team from the previous regime they fell apart. Les kept them as a top 5 team in the nation. Your hate or disgust and giving people like Chavis more credit kinda show this. You are willing g to give anyone else but Les Miles credit for the success of the program over those years.

---

Les Miles’ offensive philosophy kept LSU from winning multiple titles. 100% his fault. He had great rosters, I’ll give him that. But he still always managed to squander them.

quote:

---

nah O left LSU with multiple QB's one just transferred before the bowl game the the current starter refused to play in the bowl game. Kelly is 20-7 in two years. Les went 38-14 his last four, so Kelly needs to go 9-3 which should be bottom of the barrel for an LSU team. Of course Kelly could go 10-4 in back to back seasons and finish 40-15 which means he would be 1 game better than Les's last 4 which LSU fans absolutely hated. I can agree it was time for Les to go but sit there and act like he sucked at LSU and LSU won despite is just plain ignorance. Les wasn't Saban, yet Les may be the second or third best coach in LSU history. He won and he won a lot with a lot of different coordinators and players. The people that can't accept that is baffling as they rewrite and make excuses to try and discredit what he did accomplish.

---

Are you really trying to make the argument that the situation O left Kelly with wasn’t really all that bad?

Kelly has to win a nattie until then he's not as good as les miles