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re: Are we incapable of admitting that process matters?
Posted on 11/29/10 at 12:56 pm to tigerfoot
Posted on 11/29/10 at 12:56 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
So now we are able to isolate all things lucky...and they only occur, for the most part, when we are playing football in the SEC.....and only in the games that support an agenda.
no, that's not what he;s saying. Even Curley Hallman beat the likes of Tulane etc, so we can throw those games out because it doesn't tell us shite about how good a coach is at LSU.
The difference between us and Auburn this year is 2 games, that's the margin.
quote:
Do you like him or not?
I don;t know what this has to do with anything. I don't know him, seems like a nice guy. My asestment is of his coaching ability. IMO he is apretty good, but not great coach. He does somethings like recruiting extremly well, but is lacking in others, like weekly gameplanning and preperation. I don't think we will ever be bad with Les, but will we be better than almost making the BCS again?
2
Posted on 11/29/10 at 12:59 pm to Tiger JJ
I was talking with my wife about luck and sports. I brought up Michael Jordan and some of the insane, off-balance, fade-away, etc. shots he would always take. When you hit a few of those, it's luck. When you hit a ton of 'em, it's skill.
Miles' style rarely seems to create the separation performance in either direction.
How many times does he have to get lucky with wins before it's skill though?
Whatever he's doing, it instills confidence in the team that they can pull it off whatever the circumstances. When they fall short, he's somehow able to get them to move on.
Miles' style rarely seems to create the separation performance in either direction.
How many times does he have to get lucky with wins before it's skill though?
Whatever he's doing, it instills confidence in the team that they can pull it off whatever the circumstances. When they fall short, he's somehow able to get them to move on.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:02 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
but will we be better than almost making the BCS again?
in reality, most of the deficiencies become much less of a factor if he finds a decent OC and fixes the QB problem...that is the "process" that is killing him right now. Auburn looks like a great coached team right now, but without Newton they're probably 8-4.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:04 pm to Tiger JJ
I dont understand why it always turns into a "luck" debate. Les has good luck and bad luck (I can't think of another coach who gets fricked by the refs so often). Like any coach.
And he has won a lot of games, so he obviously knows what he is doing. And is 10-2 a nice record? Of course.
That said, if it's only about results, then keep Crowton. We got 10 wins with Crowton, and thats all that matters, right? Why be upset with an offense that couldnt push McNeese around? It was good enough for 10 wins this year, and the West should be weaker next year.
And if its all about results, you'd better disregard the human polls too.
That said, I like Les. His teams play sloppy, but with a decent OC I think most of the problems will be resolved.
And he has won a lot of games, so he obviously knows what he is doing. And is 10-2 a nice record? Of course.
That said, if it's only about results, then keep Crowton. We got 10 wins with Crowton, and thats all that matters, right? Why be upset with an offense that couldnt push McNeese around? It was good enough for 10 wins this year, and the West should be weaker next year.
And if its all about results, you'd better disregard the human polls too.
That said, I like Les. His teams play sloppy, but with a decent OC I think most of the problems will be resolved.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:05 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
Everyone keeps acting as if people are saying that if not for luck, Miles would be winless. It's a red herring. So stop throwing out this 80% nonsense. What we're talking about is the effect at the margin. If luck played a huge role in just 8 or 10 games, then that is a MASSIVE effect on the overall outcome.
Nice try but no cigar again. And not a red herring - actually fact, something you guys seem to have a hard time dealing with.
I have already pointed out that 78 games over 6 years is way enough to average out any effects from luck, on the margin or anywhere else.
You expect us to believe that good luck shines on Miles 100% of the time but bad luck never befalls him - that's just not realistic.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:09 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
I don't think we will ever be bad with Les, but will we be better than almost making the BCS again?
Hell if I know, we would have to get soooo lucky.
But this year you got Bama, MSU, AU, and Arky stacked up against you.
Talent, as much as no one wants to admit it, is pretty damn close in all schools with exception to MSU. THere is almost nothing seperating them, it will ALWAYS come down to a play or three in a game in those games. You call it luck, I call it positioned to win. Luck generally does not help when you are down by 17. The old saying, the better you are, the luckier you get.
I do not defend the clock issues, I do however defend close games against inferior teams. It is sports, it happens. A few breaks seperates every team from 2 losses or more.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:10 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
in reality, most of the deficiencies become much less of a factor if he finds a decent OC and fixes the QB problem...that is the "process" that is killing him right now. Auburn looks like a great coached team right now, but without Newton they're probably 8-4.
Probably right. LSU's offense keeps every game close. In 2007 and 2008, the defense kept every game close. It's always something, but thats probably how it is at every school.
The real pisser was seeing Bama go undefeated 2 years in the conference, and most of those wins were pretty dominant. Not always blowouts, but drama free. No need gimmicks, 13 defenders, or goal line stands. Just physical, grinding wins. Not all of them of course, but most. That was hard to stomach, and we havent seen LSU do that in several years.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:12 pm to LSUnKaty
quote:
Nice try but no cigar again. And not a red herring - actually fact, something you guys seem to have a hard time dealing with.
I have already pointed out that 78 games over 6 years is way enough to average out any effects from luck, on the margin or anywhere else.
no the problem is you and others here don't understand probability and can't deal with concepts beyond either or and don't understand what a big difference changes at the margin make Its not a matter of 61-17 or 17-61. There is a big difference between 61-17 and 55-23, that;s only 1 more lose a year.
Are you claiming that because he won 60 other games, the Tennessee game this year was not lucky?
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:14 pm to LSUnKaty
quote:
I have already pointed out that 78 games over 6 years is way enough to average out any effects from luck, on the margin or anywhere else.
You expect us to believe that good luck shines on Miles 100% of the time but bad luck never befalls him - that's just not realistic.
+1
But we also can't deny that many of LSU's wins were uglier than they shouldve been, and not just this year. Its a long term trend. Probably nothing that a new OC couldnt fix though!
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:15 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
But this year you got Bama, MSU, AU, and Arky stacked up against you.
that is going to be the case every year.
quote:
Talent, as much as no one wants to admit it, is pretty damn close in all schools with exception to MSU
EXACTLY, the difference is MARGINAL. Get it.
quote:
THere is almost nothing seperating them, it will ALWAYS come down to a play or three in a game in those games. You call it luck, I call it positioned to win
depends on the situation. Vs Florida and Alabama this year it was in a position to win, vs Tenn this year, OM last year, we were not prepared, in the case we won, it was luck.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:16 pm to H-Town Tiger
Maybe this discussion is a little too nuanced for a football forum.
Can we just all agree that 10-2 is good but the offense was bad? That would be a start.
Can we just all agree that 10-2 is good but the offense was bad? That would be a start.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:17 pm to biglego
quote:
No need gimmicks, 13 defenders, or goal line stands. Just physical, grinding wins.
Yup - it's not like they needed Lee to toss an INT in OT in 2008, or won against a crappy kentucky or crappy ole miss team by a combined total of 6 points or anything....or Tennessee in 2009.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:17 pm to biglego
quote:
Probably nothing that a new OC couldnt fix though!
this is just an easy scape goat. Its not like Crowton's offensive philosphy changed at LSU. The HC hires the OC, if the OC doesn't run the offense the HC wants, who's fault is that?
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:17 pm to H-Town Tiger
I keep seeing people saying Les always has his team in a position to win so he is a good coach, you do realize that Les always has us in a position to lose as well even to inferior teams. LSU doesnt dominate anyone under Les
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:17 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Case in point.
Are you claiming that because he won 60 other games, the Tennessee game this year was not lucky?
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:20 pm to ironsides
quote:
Yup - it's not like they needed Lee to toss an INT in OT in 2008, or won against a crappy kentucky or crappy ole miss team by a combined total of 6 points or anything....or Tennessee in 2009.
That's why I stressed MOST. But Bama had few close calls in 2009 (and in most of their 2010 wins too) whereas LSU looks like shite no matter what year, or what opponent. And it matters, bc humans vote in the BCS.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:21 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
this is just an easy scape goat. Its not like Crowton's offensive philosphy changed at LSU. The HC hires the OC, if the OC doesn't run the offense the HC wants, who's fault is that?
Ultimately it's on Les of course. I'm not arguing with you there.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:24 pm to Tyger1919
quote:
LSU doesnt dominate anyone under Les
That's really the crux of it. No one expects to dominate good SEC teams, but damn LSU should be able to push McNeese around. And lke I posted above, Bama dominated last year in most of their games, which was hard to stomach bc I hate Bama.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:24 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Are you claiming that because he won 60 other games, the Tennessee game this year was not lucky?
Lets visit this..with football glasses on.
Why did Tenn have 13 on the field, why?
Because of a late substitution by Tenn. Why a late substitution you ask, well, because Miles and Crowton had a skill package in, while Tenn had run a heavy package on the field.
You see, the action by Miles forced Tenn either to make a hard substitution or have a 280 pound end cover Randle.
Now, the definition of luck is that it just occurs, and is not influenced by ones actions.
You see a COACHING move forced a BAD COACHING move irregardless of the clock issues, therefore making it not some divine lucky action.
It was football and strategy, Dooley even indicated it in his interview later in the week.
Posted on 11/29/10 at 1:28 pm to BRMom85
quote:
The process is tedious.
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