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Message
re: Advocate Article on J. Lee...
Posted on 8/12/10 at 8:56 pm to RhodeIslandRed
Posted on 8/12/10 at 8:56 pm to RhodeIslandRed
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/14/23 at 8:42 pm
0
Posted on 8/12/10 at 11:13 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
arse-hat
so you resort to name calling?
what are you? 6?
Posted on 8/13/10 at 4:42 am to Icansee4miles
Boom! Super Boom!
Doc, you are displaying an "apparent" unmitigated bias for JJ. Not JJ, JL, and the upcoming success of our 2010 LSU football team. IMO. Why? I have defended you and your posts in the past. But why are you so anti JL and pro JJ. I see them as both contenders and contributors to LSU's success in the upcoming season. Please tell me why both QB's won't be a part of this.......
Doc, you are displaying an "apparent" unmitigated bias for JJ. Not JJ, JL, and the upcoming success of our 2010 LSU football team. IMO. Why? I have defended you and your posts in the past. But why are you so anti JL and pro JJ. I see them as both contenders and contributors to LSU's success in the upcoming season. Please tell me why both QB's won't be a part of this.......
This post was edited on 8/13/10 at 4:50 am
Posted on 8/13/10 at 6:08 am to TheDoc
quote:
so you resort to name calling?
what are you? 6?
Almost as immature as repeatedly pestering someone about something you were completely wrong about? I usually don't resort to profanity and not proud of it but you're far from the easiest poster to deal with.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 6:13 am to TaserTiger
quote:
But why are you so anti JL and pro JJ.
so agreeing with objective facts makes me "anti or pro" something?
Posted on 8/13/10 at 6:13 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
you're far from the easiest poster to deal with.
it's probably time to step away from the keyboard
Posted on 8/13/10 at 6:33 am to TheDoc
quote:
it's probably time to step away from the keyboard
Oh, that you would follow your own advice on this
Posted on 8/13/10 at 9:01 am to TheDoc
quote:
so agreeing with objective facts makes me "anti or pro" something?
And this is the problem.
I have never said one negative thing about Lee that didn't related directly to play on the field. And even then, I'm simply analyzing the numbers and play. I don't hate Lee; I've never hated Lee; I don't know Lee. In fact, I often defended Lee in 2008 because it was obviously apparent that our biggest problem (like 2009) was the coaches on the sidelines, not the players on the field.
That being said, it is completely unreasonable for anyone to suggest that Lee is better QB than Jefferson. There is no objective evidence that people can point to to back that belief up. I don't know what the issue - maybe some people have extremely short memories, maybe some people don't grasp the game and the position, maybe its something else - but there is no argument for starting Lee over Jefferson, none.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 9:11 am to Antonio Moss
Your problem is that you spend the majority of your time on here trying to sell this BS theory that Jordan Jefferson is clearly superior to Jarrett Lee.
I dont believe that and IMO the majority of LSU fans dont believe it either.
with that said, it doesnt translate that JL should be starting over JJ.
I said earlier that you are going to be one dissapointed guy if JJ doesnt really kick it in to gear this fall after the way youve pumped him up on this message board all summer.
The time for blaming JJ's shortcomings on rbs, oline, youth and coaching is quickly coming to an end.
I dont believe that and IMO the majority of LSU fans dont believe it either.
with that said, it doesnt translate that JL should be starting over JJ.
I said earlier that you are going to be one dissapointed guy if JJ doesnt really kick it in to gear this fall after the way youve pumped him up on this message board all summer.
The time for blaming JJ's shortcomings on rbs, oline, youth and coaching is quickly coming to an end.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 9:20 am to BT
quote:
Your problem is that you spend the majority of your time on here trying to sell this BS theory that Jordan Jefferson is clearly superior to Jarrett Lee.
No, I spend the majority time on here correcting people's incorrect statements. It just so happens that most of those statements center around the QB position.
quote:
I said earlier that you are going to be one dissapointed guy if JJ doesnt really kick it in to gear this fall after the way youve pumped him up on this message board all summer.
I'll be disappointed because it will translate into losses for LSU. Everything I have said is based on prior play. Other than overall record, I've made no predictions for this season.
quote:
The time for blaming JJ's shortcomings on rbs, oline, youth and coaching is quickly coming to an end.
I've often recognized his shortcomings, but some of things he gets pegged with simply are outside of his control or are completely inaccurate. I've been very consistent on my criticism of both QBs. The difference is my criticism is based on actual shortcomings and not falsehoods.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 9:29 am to Antonio Moss
I think the sooner people realize that LSU does not have a QB on the roster (except maybe ZL) that is going to put the team on his back and win multiple games akin to Colt McCoy, Tebow, Stafford, etc., the better.
In JJ and JL we have talented game manangers at best with JJ have an obvious dual threat ability. Neither QB has a future in the NFL, neither will be a high draft pick and unfortunately, IMO, neither currently has a QB coach worth a shite.
With that being said, they are both apparently working hard to be the best that they can be in the given situation. This situation happens to include 3 5 star wideouts...not too bad.
In many ways, JJ, as the starter, is dependent on the line performing and the line is likewise dependent on his performance. If he can get the ball into play-makers hands consistently (strong, accurate throws), teams cannot stack the box which will in turn make it easier to run block and a strong running game will obviously support the pass.
In short, neither JJ nor JL are world beaters but they don't have to be with the talent around them.
In JJ and JL we have talented game manangers at best with JJ have an obvious dual threat ability. Neither QB has a future in the NFL, neither will be a high draft pick and unfortunately, IMO, neither currently has a QB coach worth a shite.
With that being said, they are both apparently working hard to be the best that they can be in the given situation. This situation happens to include 3 5 star wideouts...not too bad.
In many ways, JJ, as the starter, is dependent on the line performing and the line is likewise dependent on his performance. If he can get the ball into play-makers hands consistently (strong, accurate throws), teams cannot stack the box which will in turn make it easier to run block and a strong running game will obviously support the pass.
In short, neither JJ nor JL are world beaters but they don't have to be with the talent around them.
This post was edited on 8/13/10 at 9:31 am
Posted on 8/13/10 at 9:30 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
No, I spend the majority time on here correcting people's incorrect statements. It just so happens that most of those statements center around the QB position.
thanks dad
quote:
I'll be disappointed because it will translate into losses for LSU. Everything I have said is based on prior play. Other than overall record, I've made no predictions for this season.
This is main prob I have with you.
To quote a bible verse "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes unto the father but by me"
You seem bright enough to see where Im going with that.
PS.....JJ isnt Jesus to LSU football.
quote:
I've often recognized his shortcomings, but some of things he gets pegged with simply are outside of his control or are completely inaccurate. I've been very consistent on my criticism of both QBs. The difference is my criticism is based on actual shortcomings and not falsehoods.
Id like to believe as jrs both qbs have matured.
However I personally just havent and dont see this "clearly superior" thing you keep harping on.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 9:59 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
In fact, I often defended Lee in 2008 because it was obviously apparent that our biggest problem (like 2009) was the coaches on the sidelines, not the players on the field
That's a real rational thought u got there. Lets lay the 16 ints with 7 pick 6 in 8 games on someone w/o the football in their hand.
Blame anyone u want for putting a player in a game, but once in the game the player makes the play or he doesn't.
It's a mental problem with JL and even he has been honest enough to admit it. If he or his dad thought it was coaching, he would be gone after 08.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 10:00 am to DeltaDoc
Sounded to me that he's wanting the opportunity to prove he is a good QB. I hope he starts.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 10:08 am to Tigerdandy
quote:
Lets lay the 16 ints with 7 pick 6 in 8 games
That is Lee's fault, without a doubt.
quote:
16 ints withquote:in 8 games
7 pick 6
I know it hurts, but Jesus, can we stop blaming him for all of those. Hell, an Alabama player eluded about 7 tackles taking one back 54 yards. Lee could not do much about how far an interception is returned!
Posted on 8/13/10 at 10:11 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
but there is no argument for starting Lee over Jefferson, none.
An offense that was EXTREMELY more prolific is one arguement that most people make.
I do not care if JJ or JL starts, but to say something asinine such as "ther is NO arguement," is false.
Now, I will shut up and allow the JJ apologist pass his mistakes onto the other 10 offensive players. Unfortunately, JL does not get the benefit of the doubt in the same way that some posters grant it to JJ.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 10:15 am to slackster
slackseter I was about to pounce on you for using the other 10 off players not tackling on JL's int returns, but you quickly redeemed yourself.
Good post.
Good post.
This post was edited on 8/13/10 at 10:17 am
Posted on 8/13/10 at 10:19 am to Tigerdandy
quote:
That's a real rational thought u got there. Lets lay the 16 ints with 7 pick 6 in 8 games on someone w/o the football in their hand.
Certainly Lee deserves some blame for these interceptions; I never denied that. But it isn't like every single one was a great play call that Lee just screwed the pooch on. Crowton did nothing (I repeat "nothing") to tailor the offense to avoid these situations. Furthermore, Lee received NO IN-GAME coaching, NONE. He would come off the field and was given no instruction on why the interception occurred.
This was a kid that was in his fourth year of competitive football. You think someone on the staff would have thought, "hey, we may want to have a coach with him the entire game to discuss what he's seeing out there."
This falls squarely on Crowton as offensive coordinator/alleged QB coach, and to a greater degree, Miles.
quote:
Blame anyone u want for putting a player in a game, but once in the game the player makes the play or he doesn't.
It isn't that simple, sorry.
quote:
It's a mental problem with JL and even he has been honest enough to admit it.
Sure, but LSU did nothing to help that situation.
quote:
If he or his dad thought it was coaching, he would be gone after 08.
Meh, the kid decided to stick it out. Good for him.
Posted on 8/13/10 at 10:22 am to BT
quote:
slackseter I was about to pounce on you for using the other 10 off players not tackling on JL's int returns, but you quikcly redeemed yourself.
Look, some INTs get returned for TDs. Some get stripped of the ball and returned for offensive TDs ( See Saints v. Washington).
JL is one of 11 guys trying to stop an INT return. Watching 7 go for TDs, along with one in the Spring game, is painful. But IMHO, it is less painful to watch when the reward is often greater, compared to 37 sacks and the worst offense in LSU history.
In hindsight, however, I am not sure if JL and JJ have that much variance in their style of play. Perhaps, had the situation been flipped, JJ would have been asked to do alot for the offense in 2008 and would have produced great numbers, with alot of pics. Then, JL would have taken over the reigns in 2009 with a HC and OC that were terrified of repeating the same mistakes, and would have been sluggish and held onto the ball much like JJ did.
JJ came from a spread offense in high school. I am sure he can open it up, much like Lee did in 2008. I just hope the coaches allow them BOTH the opportunity to do big things for the school this year. That vote of confidence from the staff was never there in 2008/2009.
This post was edited on 8/13/10 at 10:24 am
Posted on 8/13/10 at 10:26 am to slackster
quote:
An offense that was EXTREMELY more prolific is one arguement that most people make.
We've already broken this down. The passing games were strikingly similar in 2008 and 2009 yargage wise. JJ had more TDs, less INTs, higher completion percentage, and more sacks (huge problem.)
The difference in 2008 and 2009 was the running game. And as we've also broken down numerous times, the lack of a rushing offense wasn't due to defenses "stacking the box," it was due to an inept offensive line.
If you want to argue that its easier to play QB with no rushing game than a prominent rushing game, be my guest, but I doubt many people will agree with you.
So Jefferson gets a knock against for something that is completely out of his control - an inept offensive rushing game.
This is a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier.
quote:
I do not care if JJ or JL starts, but to say something asinine such as "ther is NO arguement," is false.
Based on prior performance, there is no argument.
quote:
Now, I will shut up and allow the JJ apologist pass his mistakes onto the other 10 offensive players.
So one guy is accountable for the entire offense while the other ten (and coaches) are completely unreasonable?
Jefferson puts up better passing numbers than Lee and has no running game to aid him, yet its his fault we couldn't run the ball.
Do you understand how ridiculous this sounds?
quote:
Unfortunately, JL does not get the benefit of the doubt in the same way that some posters grant it to JJ.
There is no "benefit of the doubt." You can look directly at performance.
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