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re: 2 reasons why an 8 team playoff will fail

Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:02 pm to
Posted by billfish21
Louisiana
Member since Jan 2009
1659 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:02 pm to
why should a mediocre conference champion play for the championship if, and there will be, a handful of teams with the more impressive resume?

An eight team playoff to the top eight ranked teams might easily see two teams play for the third time in a given season... think SEC West champion against SEC East champion or Big 12 North against Big 12 South. Does anyone care to, or need to, see this match-up?

An eight team playoff would be exciting for several years due to its novelty than it will bore us to tears with poor matchups and empty stadium seats.

For example, 1st seed southern cal hosts 8th seed oklahoma state... cowboys fans will flock to california like the gold rush - it will be entertaining exactly once and the luster will wear off very quickly.



Posted by BayAreaTigerFan
Member since Jan 2008
2840 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:11 pm to
Posted by Angry LLAMA
the energy capital of the world
Member since Mar 2009
2731 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

the top eight ranked teams might easily see two teams play for the third time
ehh. easily? no. possible? yes. i mean how many times has this situation happen in the BCS era? the only one i can think of is in 03 where we beat UGA twice, and they only had one other loss(FL i think)-- and even then, they didnt stay in the top 8 with 3 loses. i see where you are going with this. i think its inevitable to see alot of 2nd time of the year matchups.

but even in that senario, im sure it was discussed when implementing the SEC championship game. 2nd time hasnt ruined the SECCG, so maybe it will be more compelling watching teams play again. who knows?
Posted by redfish99
B.R.
Member since Aug 2007
18688 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:17 pm to
I would love to see an 8 team playoff but the logistics for the teams and fanbase not to mention the expense to try and follow your team all over the country with 4-5 days notice to possibly three extra games will never work.The plus one at a fifth bowl site(COTTON) will be the most we ever see IMHO.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465347 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:20 pm to
Why the BCS > Playoffs

Part 1

Part 2 - Why playoffs are worse than the BCS

Part 3 - How to fix the BCS

now this is from almost 2 years ago, and the preseason prediction in part 1 is pretty comical now, but read
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47827 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

SlowFlowPro
What about Qualifications Based Playoffs, such as the model that xiv proposed a few months ago? I don't see any noticeable flaws in that model.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465347 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:25 pm to
if he came up with it, it's probably bunk
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47827 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:27 pm to
The general idea of it has been around for a while. He merely made a specific variant of it that I find very appealing. Copy and Paste from earlier post:

The Qualifications Based Playoff
as proposed by xiv


The number of playoff teams is not predetermined, though it never exceeds 8.


You make the playoffs if any of the following are true:
- You are BCS #1
- You are BCS #2
- You are undefeated, and your SOS is more than .450 (ie, two times your opponents' winning percentage, plus your opponents' opponents' winning percentage, divided by three) (2006 Boise State and 2004 Utah would have qualified this way; 2007 Hawaii would not have qualified.). If there are more than six such teams that are not BCS #1/#2, the six that have the highest BCS ratings will be chosen.
- You have a BCS rating of at least .90000 and there are not already eight teams who have qualified.

Seed the teams in order of their BCS rating, and make a bracket. Any opening rounds are to be played the 2nd and 3rd Saturdays of December at the home stadium of the higher-seeded teams. In the case of odd-numbered teams selected, byes are given to higher seeds. Seed switching to reduce travel will be encouraged. The BCS title game will be played the 2nd week of January at a predetermined site.



Previous Seasons Hypothetical Brackets:

Let's look at 2006, a really controversial year.

Qualifiers:
-Ohio State (BCS #1)
-Florida (BCS #2
-Boise State (Undefeated with adequate SOS, BCS #8)
-Michigan (.9000 BCS rating, BCS #3)

Opening round:
Boise State at Ohio State
Michigan at Florida

BCS Title Game (Glendale): BSU/OSU vs. UM/UF


Let's take 2007, a really weird year.

BCS #1: Ohio State
BCS #2: Louisiana State

And that's it. frick you, Georgia. The only undefeated team was Hawaii, who had the single weakest FBS schedule, so they're out. And no other schools had .9000 BCS ratings. No playoffs in 2007, other than the BCS title game.



2004 was a fun year. Let's do that one.

BCS #1: Southern California
BCS #2: Oklahoma
>.9000 BCS rating: BCS #3 Auburn
Undefeated with a decent SOS: BCS #6 Utah
Notable non-qualifier: Boise State (undefeated, inadequate SOS)

This playoff would have kicked arse:
Utah at Southern California
Auburn at Oklahoma

The two winners square off in Miami.

And 2003:

BCS #1: Oklahoma
BCS #2: Louisiana State
>.9000 BCS rating, BCS #3: Southern California

USC at LSU

Oklahoma gets a first round bye and plays the winner.


This system is different from all others in that, if any team ever had a complaint about its exclusion, you could always pin-point the exact reason they didn't make it. Either they didn't achieve a high-enough BCS rating, they played too many cupcakes, or they were Georgia.
Posted by cajunx2
Edgefield,SC
Member since Jul 2005
428 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:28 pm to
Okay not 8, but all Conference Champs play in play off system. Win your conference and you have a chance to be National Champion. No different to what we have now really just a few games while Bowl Season goes on. The last 2 teams play in the +1 game like they do now. Easy some schools get opportunity to play for Championship too. Everybody happy.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465347 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:29 pm to
no system will ever allow an uncertain # of games

and his SOS factor is (1) flawed (non-BCS wins count as much as BCS wins) and (2) too low
Posted by Angry LLAMA
the energy capital of the world
Member since Mar 2009
2731 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:32 pm to
quote:

Seed switching to reduce travel will be encouraged.


what does this mean?
Posted by MemphisJerk
Memphis You Jerk
Member since Oct 2008
865 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:34 pm to
quote:

There will almost always be 5 or 6 with identical records teams vying for the last 2 spots, so someone will always feel jobbed, just like the BCS


This is a really weak argument. The problem with the BCS only really shows its head when there are 3 teams either undefeated or with 1 loss. There aren't ever going to be 12 teams in the country with a resume good enough to make an argument for the NCG. If you have 3 losses and get left out of the chance to play for a national title...so what? Who's really going to feel sorry for you? So you go to your normal bowl, get a ring, your fans get a t-shirt...nothing has really changed.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465347 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

If you have 3 losses and get left out of the chance to play for a national title...so what?

if this is your attitude, when why ever let this tier of team have a shot at the title?
Posted by mrbeastful
Member since Jan 2009
1436 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:37 pm to
Just give the crystal ball to whoever wins the sec championship and call it a day
Posted by Angry LLAMA
the energy capital of the world
Member since Mar 2009
2731 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:42 pm to
quote:

There aren't ever going to be 12 teams in the country with a resume good enough to make an argument for the NCG. If you have 3 losses and get left out of the chance to play for a national title...so what?
this is how i feel on a personal level, but if the ncaa committee has 34 at large berths and people still feel screwed- it wont matter how many seeds there are. we leave it as is: teams 3 and 4 are left out. go to 8 team tourney: 9, 10, 11 feel screwed. doesnt matter how many you take, someone is on the outsdie looking in.

and something to keep in mind with seeding/BCS/poll rankings: voters have proven their final vote is one to see the match-up(s) they want. thats how florida got to #2 in 06, LSU jumped to #2 in 07. i dont know if this a good thing or bad, but it exists
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47827 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:42 pm to
quote:

and his SOS factor is (1) flawed (non-BCS wins count as much as BCS wins) and (2) too low


If the issue is that it is to low, you can easily change it to make it higher.

I guess the question I'm asking is; moreso than xiv's variant of this idea; do you like the general idea of a Qualifications Based Playoff?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465347 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:43 pm to
it's not workable

a true plus one would be a better model

but you have to have a set schedule of how many teams play, where, and when, or it won't work in reality
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47827 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:47 pm to
quote:


but you have to have a set schedule of how many teams play, where, and when, or it won't work in reality



It seemed like the "where" aspect could have been handled similarly to the NIT Basketball Tournament.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465347 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:49 pm to
so whatever governining body is going to rent the same venue every year for 2 weeks, with that venue likely not being used every year (maybe not even every other year)? no wa
Posted by Angry LLAMA
the energy capital of the world
Member since Mar 2009
2731 posts
Posted on 7/8/09 at 6:55 pm to
quote:

so whatever governining body is going to rent the same venue every year for 2 weeks, with that venue likely not being used every year
and who will determine how many teams will be a disater. if we stay with a BCS formula- it would be ideal, but if theres a committee type- they will have pressure on them to have more teams. more teams = more games = more revenue money from sponsors. money will ultimately drive the decision
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