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re: Class star average according to Rivals

Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:36 pm to
Posted by LSU GrandDad
houston, texas
Member since Jun 2009
21564 posts
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:36 pm to
quote:

It’s very possible this class ends around a 3.7 average


this is very respectable. once again I stress the importance of balance and recruiting for future needs. in the past we got off sync and, as someone said, we were over loaded at some positions and weak at other positions. I really think our previous staff got complacent and began to recruit stars only; the result being highly rated classes but results were not comenserate due to the unbalance.
Posted by tiogatiger19
tioga, la
Member since Aug 2005
1513 posts
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:39 pm to
Good stuff, thx bro
Posted by LSU GrandDad
houston, texas
Member since Jun 2009
21564 posts
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:42 pm to
quote:

Plus, there is a direct correlation between recruiting class rankings and ranking in final ap poll.


of course there is but there is not a direct cause and effect in every instance. for example, miles was bringing in top 5 classes but not finishing in the top 5. using only average star ratings simply do not tell the whole story as to how good a team is UNLESS the classes are balanced and meet team needs. and, of course, a HUGE impact on how good a team is is the QB. this is not separated out in all of these stats where a 5 star DB is rated the same as a 5 star QB. A&M had 3 5 star QB's on their team at one time! nuff said.
Posted by salford227
Denham Springs, LA
Member since Dec 2005
1160 posts
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:24 pm to
I also skipped everything prior to 09. I got lazy! Lol. I just started looking for the kicks. They were consistent with the other years. 09,14,and 16 were the banner years. Those were the first I checked.
Posted by LosTigres25
Frisco, TX
Member since Jan 2017
365 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 12:55 am to
You can say this about any coach that consistently finishes in the top 10 year after year. Miles developed his players at a very high level and he also recruited at a high level as well. To knick pick after the fact is really unfair.

Certainly some of the higher stars were misses at LSU under Miles just like anywhere. Youve got to get them in order for them to be misses!
He didnt lose many instate highly recruited guys with all of America trying to steal them.

Some of Miles' top recruits didnt work out this is true but he took some greats from other schools in other states that did. Its a probability thing.

But you have to get the the highly rated in state players whether they live up to billing or not. Winning at recruiting and fencing off your state is a must for political reasons as well as playing the odds. Miles was outstanding at this.
Some classes work out and others dont for a myriad of reasons.
Classes that work out have 3-4 star players emerge as stars. Miles' NFL pipeline was a pretty clear indication that he was outstanding at gathering and developing players each and every year. 2012 was an anomaly and it hurt LSU. But what really hurt was the number of Juniors that left LSU that same year to try to go pro. That may never happen again.

This class has the potential to be very good or very average.
Your work is good but it is what it is. Go look at OKla with Stoops, Sumlin at A&M or Richt with Georgia. What was their worst class or avg score? Their misses?

This class, O is putting together is a below avg class at this point per what LSU is used to on paper. If he lands 5 big fish down the stretch then it will be be in line with what LSU is used to in the past 15 years, certainly not the recruiting upgrade that most thought he would bring.

O let a ton of big time Louisiana kids get away last year something Miles never did. Austin Thomas with his Tenn ties saved the day. This class has been ranked in the 15-20 range most of the cycle. O has seemed to be a better coach than thought but not as good a recruiter as thought to this point. But its too early to say just yet eiher way in reality.
Will O be an upgrade in the W-L column to Miles? Who knows, thats the 3.5 million dollar question.

Only time will tell if O can recruit coaches or players at a Les Miles level. Its just too early to tell if he can run this pressure cooker program for a decade with similar success. We're hopeful that he can. Even if this class finishes in the 15-20 range, its just too early to say if he was a bad hire.
After the 2019 season it will be clear.
This post was edited on 12/10/17 at 12:58 am
Posted by jeff70121
Metairie
Member since Dec 2011
4368 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 6:57 am to
How dare you use logic, reason and facts on this board. Only "subjective" arguments are allowed.....
Posted by jeff70121
Metairie
Member since Dec 2011
4368 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 6:58 am to
Boom....
Posted by salford227
Denham Springs, LA
Member since Dec 2005
1160 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 8:15 am to
quote:

O let a ton of big time Louisiana kids get away last year something Miles never did.


You must have forgotten the 2014 class and 2016 guys that Saban took from LSU and Miles. As for the kids that got away last year, those kids were already gone. Moses and Allen were all Bama. LSU only had a shot at Buggs and Mathis because of O. While Miles classes were finishing in the top 10 since 2012, they were deficient of quality linemen in most cases. We haven’t had a really solid Dline since the 2009 and 2010 group. 2011 and 2012 didn’t have them and we struggled on defense in 2013.

Again, I’m not an O supporter. I’m neutral and want to give him a chance to fail or succeed. We will know in 2-3 yrs. They seem to be building this team in the trenches. That’s how ALL of LSUs championship teams have been built.
Posted by Fisherchef Jeff
Ohio
Member since Dec 2014
110 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 8:19 am to
Nice light switch for the ones in the dark , verynice
Posted by Fratigerguy
Member since Jan 2014
4913 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 8:24 am to
quote:

Besides I'd rather have 3 and 4 stars. They have more to prove. Some 5 stars don't do that


Then you simply just don't understand recruiting and star rankings, and the averages.

quote:

quote:
3 downvotes.....why?
1. Our fan base is spoiled
2. Most of em don't like the truth at all
3. They want every 5 star to come here and they want every class to be Top 3


Way off base. The downvotes are because of things like your comment up top. Inevitably, someone will always come in, explain how more 3 stars are in the NFL than 5 stars, how Jacob Hester was a 2 star, how tyrann Matthieu was a 3 star, about that 5 star LSU recruited who didn't do anything, blah, blah. Same shite, different year.
Posted by salford227
Denham Springs, LA
Member since Dec 2005
1160 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 8:29 am to
quote:

Never thought about looking at a singular star rating vs home state. Very interesting. Just for noting that trend you deserve a round of thanks. Not because of some state pride thing, but because it's one of those hidden nuggets that are hard to find and actually might mean something. Index and normalized statistics (such as stars) always hide something.



I believe we see a greater success from LA 3 star talent than Texas 3 star talent because of high school evaluations. There is a lot more money poured into evaluating Texas high school players because of the sheer numbers and money. Louisiana has some very rural areas that scouts never go to. There are a lot of kids that don’t have the money to pay for camps nor have the support to get there who never get seen.

I remember when I first saw Bennie Logan’s film at the end of his senior season. Nobody knew who he was and the film quality was horrible, but it was easy to see he was a stud. Rivals gave him 3 stars because that’s all they had on him. Miles offered immediately once they saw him play and the rest is history. Mo Claiborne is another, Deion Jones, Hawkins the OT, etc.

I am no scout, but I can watch the film and see if a guy can play. If he has size and mobility, then you find out if your coaches can develop guys.
Posted by Fratigerguy
Member since Jan 2014
4913 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 8:30 am to
quote:

LosTigres25


Posted by jromero
Tennessee
Member since May 2009
85 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 8:50 am to
Good post have an upvote my friend!
Posted by alumni95
Member since Jun 2004
7592 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 8:56 am to
quote:

O let a ton of big time Louisiana kids get away last year something Miles never did.


I think you must count last year as an anomaly due to coaching change. You can’t really pin the situation directly on O on how many he lost last year. Instability across the staff will clearly do that. You can praise O however on how he was able to salvage a pretty amazing class overall.

Just my opinion. Going forward we will learn the truth if his overall recruiting chops as the big man in charge.
Posted by Fratigerguy
Member since Jan 2014
4913 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 9:08 am to
quote:

You must have forgotten the 2014 class and 2016 guys that Saban took from LSU and Miles


I really want to not be ugly. Lol. But it honestly appears like you have never followed recruiting before and you get your info from the rant. In 2014, we lost Cam Robinson. That's really it. We passed on Hootie for Jamal Adams. We weren't after Cam Sims. In 2016, the totality of the players that Bama got that we were after in state was Shyheim Carter. But we signed 3 DBs higer ranked than him anyway.

quote:

While Miles classes were finishing in the top 10 since 2012, they were deficient of quality linemen in most cases. We haven’t had a really solid Dline since the 2009 and 2010 group. 2011 and 2012 didn’t have them and we struggled on defense in 2013.


I just don't even...I mean, do you follow recruiting at all?

O linemen by year under miles:
11-4
12-4
13-5
14-3
15-5 (includes hanner Shipley which was recruited to play tackle)
16-4

D linemen by year under miles:
11-4
12-1
13-7
14-5
15-2
16-8

Some of those folks, of course, rolled into other positions such as LB once Aranda brought his D here. But they were D linemen under our prior defensive scheme.

In the group in 2011 and 2012, there were 3 NFL D linemen out of the 5. I'd say they were at least "decent".

The reason O is having to fill back with some many linemen is because so many of them jumped ship after he was named coach.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
51984 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 9:18 am to
quote:

To knick pick after the fact is really unfair.


I raised four kids, and on two occassions we had to pick nits. A nit is the egg of a louse (plural: lice).

The Knicks suck sometimes, but to pick them would be a lousy thing.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
51984 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 9:48 am to
quote:

D linemen by year under miles: 11-4 12-1 13-7 14-5 15-2 16-8


This is misleading, because you are including rush ends with linemen. In Chavis’ defense we needed only two big uglies on the field - Arden Key, Mingo, Hunter and Sam Montgomery don’t count. Each year Miles should have signed 3 imo. We signed...

2011 - 2
2012 - 0
2013 - 4
2014 - 3 (He reached for LMFAO and Valentine, who were passed on by others due to severe personality problems)
2015 - 0
2016 - 3 (moved Roddy to TE)

Some will fail. If you get three in every class, and one washes out, and one goes pro after three years, you’ll have 5 experienced big uglies on each defense. That is bare minimum in Chavis’ defense to provide the necessary rotation. Recruiting none in 12 and 15 kills your team. In Saban’s career you will never see less than three!

If you subtract the obvious head cases, we recruited five big uglies in four years. We needed 12! THAT was Miles biggest problem. And that was why LSU football went from championship level to the Citrus bowl.

In Orgeron’s defenses we need more. He needs to average 3.5 per year without reaching for head cases.

Posted by whitefoot
Franklin, TN
Member since Aug 2006
11193 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 9:51 am to
quote:

This is misleading,

Thank you for responding to this! I was wanting to, but was short on time and you did a better job than I would have anyway.
Posted by Captain Crown
Member since Jun 2011
56094 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 9:53 am to
All about that 247 composite
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28193 posts
Posted on 12/10/17 at 9:56 am to
quote:

1. Our fan base is spoiled
2. Most of em don't like the truth at all
3. They want every 5 star to come here and they want every class to be Top 3

This isn't the class for that. This is a foundation building class. Prime example is the 10 OL AND DL we have. Coach O wanted the trenches rebuilt and that's what he's doing. Besides I'd rather have 3 and 4 stars. They have more to prove. Some 5 stars don't do that. I like this class ALOT



Nuclear explosion gif.

I like this class too man and if played properly this early signing period could bring some big booms.

This post was edited on 12/10/17 at 10:10 am
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