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re: Wood Privacy Fence - Last minute tips, advice?
Posted on 5/29/24 at 10:50 am to Korkstand
Posted on 5/29/24 at 10:50 am to Korkstand
quote:I was under the impression that screws are stronger than nails, but I'm all ears.
I'm wondering the same. The poster said it's for added shear strength, but is shearing screws off a common problem?
2
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:01 am to The Mick
quote:
I was under the impression that screws are stronger than nails
Stronger if pulling out, but nails have a thicker diameter that screws.
Screws break in half much easier.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:07 am to Shexter
Coated torx head deck screws are the answer.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:24 am to poochie
That's my bad, I just checked and it's a 10" auger.
So at your estimate I'd need a little over 100# of concrete per post.
So at your estimate I'd need a little over 100# of concrete per post.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:25 am to poochie
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:29 am to Korkstand
quote:
Like these for pickets? LINK
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:33 am to Korkstand
10” dia = 5” radius. .42’^2 x pi x 2’ depth less post .37^2 x 2’ depth / .667 cf/80# bag = 1.2512 bags = 100.096 lbs total. But who’s counting.
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 11:34 am
Posted on 5/29/24 at 12:01 pm to poochie
quote:
Damn, your reducing the posts cross section by almost half. You essentially have a 2x4 post.
I’m no structural engineer but never had one fail. And my fence looks nice. I figure adding a picket down the side and filling the notch w a 2x4 must aid it in someway.
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 12:38 pm to Korkstand
That's the ones I've always used for fences (and my brother uses, he's in the fence business). I have never seen or heard of one of those screws breaking/snapping.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 12:53 pm to The Mick
quote:
I was under the impression that screws are stronger than nails, but I'm all ears
screws where you need compression, nails where you need shear force strength
also nails are not as brittle as screws and will bend a little before they break down the road as the fence ages , sags, wind blows, kids climb it etc
there is a very big debate on using nails vs screws for pickets, both have there + and -, best bet is to use both, i choose to use ring shank nails out of a gun, still a nail but with some compression attributes, has worked very well
fastening runners to posts i would only use galvanized nails 3 1/2"
Posted on 5/29/24 at 12:57 pm to Tigerpaw123
I prefer screws because if you have to repair or make changes, they’re easy to remove. Ring shank will tear the wood apart trying to remove.
If you’re having issues with shear on a fence picket, you’ve got bigger problems.
If you’re having issues with shear on a fence picket, you’ve got bigger problems.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 1:02 pm to poochie
quote:
I prefer screws because if you have to repair or make changes, they’re easy to remove. Ring shank will tear the wood apart trying to remove.
If you’re having issues with shear on a fence picket, you’ve got bigger problems.
like i said there is a big debate, and i do not think either is wrong, interesting rabbit hole to go down, merit on both sides
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 1:15 pm to Tigerpaw123
I guess I don't get where the shear force is coming from on the rail to post attachment. If it's wood shrinkage I don't think a 2x4 shrinks much lengthwise. Is it the weight of the fence pulling down?
Posted on 5/29/24 at 1:25 pm to Korkstand
Space your posts on 7' OC. It is only three more posts in the 200 foot run. It will also keep the fence from sagging in between post over time. That is the best money you can spend. Plus you can get 14 ft 2x4s from a lumber yard.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:29 pm to Maillard
quote:
Space your posts on 7' OC. It is only three more posts in the 200 foot run. It will also keep the fence from sagging in between post over time. That is the best money you can spend. Plus you can get 14 ft 2x4s from a lumber yard.
You see a lot of properly built fences with 8’ spaced posts sagging? The only time I’ve seen a fence sag is when some dumdum installed his runners oriented horizontally and used clips to hang them between posts. Yuck
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:39 pm to Korkstand
Looks like the weather is going to delay my project, so can we have a sidebar about concrete and its exact purposes and the best way to do it? I'm just going to write out my thoughts and see if you guys have any input.
Obviously the main purpose of the concrete (or any hole filler) is to hold the pole up. But since the concrete is shoving on dirt, is a concrete-filled hole any better than filling the hole with soil and compacting or just driving the post (if possible)? Probably so, since you are in effect increasing the surface area of the post so that it's shoving on more soil. Does the sheer weight of the concrete help? The extra 100 lbs probably don't hurt.
Does concrete make a post rot slower or faster? Some think that if the concrete goes all the way under the post it will trap water and cause the pole to rot, but others think the post actually stays drier this way because the post wicks the water out to evaporate whereas ground contact would keep it moist. Some people put gravel in the hole to set the post on so that concrete only touches the sides and water is allowed to drain out, but in some cases this could allow more moisture in to touch the wood. Also direct ground contact allows microbes and whatnot direct access to the pole whereas a concrete barrier prevents some of that.
On a similar note, some recommend coming above ground level with the concrete and sloping it away from the post. I'm not sure I like the look, but if it keeps the post from rotting so it'll last 20 years instead of 10, I think I could get over it.
I'm probably overthinking again as I do with most things, but I think some of these details matter and could make a big difference in strength and longevity.
Obviously the main purpose of the concrete (or any hole filler) is to hold the pole up. But since the concrete is shoving on dirt, is a concrete-filled hole any better than filling the hole with soil and compacting or just driving the post (if possible)? Probably so, since you are in effect increasing the surface area of the post so that it's shoving on more soil. Does the sheer weight of the concrete help? The extra 100 lbs probably don't hurt.
Does concrete make a post rot slower or faster? Some think that if the concrete goes all the way under the post it will trap water and cause the pole to rot, but others think the post actually stays drier this way because the post wicks the water out to evaporate whereas ground contact would keep it moist. Some people put gravel in the hole to set the post on so that concrete only touches the sides and water is allowed to drain out, but in some cases this could allow more moisture in to touch the wood. Also direct ground contact allows microbes and whatnot direct access to the pole whereas a concrete barrier prevents some of that.
On a similar note, some recommend coming above ground level with the concrete and sloping it away from the post. I'm not sure I like the look, but if it keeps the post from rotting so it'll last 20 years instead of 10, I think I could get over it.
I'm probably overthinking again as I do with most things, but I think some of these details matter and could make a big difference in strength and longevity.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:41 pm to poochie
quote:Post spacing 8' with 16' runners crown up should never sag right? My uncle is trying to convince me to add cross supports between posts and I don't think that's necessary.
You see a lot of properly built fences with 8’ spaced posts sagging? The only time I’ve seen a fence sag is when some dumdum installed his runners oriented horizontally and used clips to hang them between posts. Yuck
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:02 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Post spacing 8' with 16' runners crown up should never sag right?
Absolutely not if built right.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:09 pm to Korkstand
A post could work loose in wet soil. I guess it could do the same with concrete but it gives you more weight and surface area losing against the earth when taking that horizontal load.
I don’t think the rocks do any good since the water is going to drain through earth as well. Good point in concrete st the bottom causing it to pool without draining. If you get some rot st the bottom, no big deal. The main thing is ton don’t want standing water at the point of connection to the ground. If that part rots, you could see breakage there. I think either concrete to at or above ground level or soil sloped away would accomplish this. I prefer concrete to just above ground level sloped away becuase it’s easier to maintain instead of grass growing all the way up to the post that will have to get weedeated which will eat up the post.
I don’t think the rocks do any good since the water is going to drain through earth as well. Good point in concrete st the bottom causing it to pool without draining. If you get some rot st the bottom, no big deal. The main thing is ton don’t want standing water at the point of connection to the ground. If that part rots, you could see breakage there. I think either concrete to at or above ground level or soil sloped away would accomplish this. I prefer concrete to just above ground level sloped away becuase it’s easier to maintain instead of grass growing all the way up to the post that will have to get weedeated which will eat up the post.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:37 pm to poochie
For the cost of installing 3 more posts you end up with a beefier fence . It is straighter, stronger for minimal cost and effort considering he is using an auger. 14 foot 2x are generally straighter than 16s in this day of crappy lumber.
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