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re: DIY Water Line Replacement - Call Me Crazy
Posted on 3/30/23 at 4:37 pm to 98eagle
Posted on 3/30/23 at 4:37 pm to 98eagle
Just something to consider. How is your water pressure? Instead of trenching are you able to get pex with outside diameter just a little smaller than your PVC inside diameter and feed it through the pipe?
1
Posted on 3/30/23 at 5:03 pm to TimeOutdoors
My water pressure is fine, but my water flow rate is too low because it is maybe 475' of 3/4" PVC from the meter to the current house entrance. The whole run is slightly downhill from the meter to the house but 3/4" PVC is the main reason the water flow is not as good as it should be.
I learned from other videos that you can have high water pressure and a low water flow rate, and the opposite is also possible. You can have low water pressure and a high water flow rate. The flow rate is highly dependent on the length of the water line and diameter. A smaller diameter pipe reduces water flow due to increased friction of the water on the sides of the pipe.
Interesting idea you have to pull a new PEX pipe through the PVC. It would be nice if I did have a 1-1/2" PVC pipe all the way from the meter to the house. If that were the case, I would consider using my water jetter inside a 1-1/2" PVC pipe to "crawl" through the pipe in maybe 50' or 100' sections and pull a 1" PEX back through it. I'm not sure how well that would work due to friction but I would consider trying that and if I couldn't pull it through a 50' section, I could cut the existing pipe in shorter sections until it worked, and I could pull a single 475' feet or so roll of PEX through the existing pipe in incremental pulls . Another issue with this idea would be that I am not sure of the exact route that the existing pipe takes from the meter to the house, so figuring out where to dig it up in sections would be difficult. But a very cool idea if the situation allowed it.
I hope that running 1"PEX to the other side of the house (longer distance but I avoid concrete driveways and utilities) will fix my low water flow problems which are also worse because of the existing water leaks. I think it will.
I learned from other videos that you can have high water pressure and a low water flow rate, and the opposite is also possible. You can have low water pressure and a high water flow rate. The flow rate is highly dependent on the length of the water line and diameter. A smaller diameter pipe reduces water flow due to increased friction of the water on the sides of the pipe.
Interesting idea you have to pull a new PEX pipe through the PVC. It would be nice if I did have a 1-1/2" PVC pipe all the way from the meter to the house. If that were the case, I would consider using my water jetter inside a 1-1/2" PVC pipe to "crawl" through the pipe in maybe 50' or 100' sections and pull a 1" PEX back through it. I'm not sure how well that would work due to friction but I would consider trying that and if I couldn't pull it through a 50' section, I could cut the existing pipe in shorter sections until it worked, and I could pull a single 475' feet or so roll of PEX through the existing pipe in incremental pulls . Another issue with this idea would be that I am not sure of the exact route that the existing pipe takes from the meter to the house, so figuring out where to dig it up in sections would be difficult. But a very cool idea if the situation allowed it.
I hope that running 1"PEX to the other side of the house (longer distance but I avoid concrete driveways and utilities) will fix my low water flow problems which are also worse because of the existing water leaks. I think it will.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 5:14 pm to 98eagle
Years ago saw a gas line repaired this way and always made alot of sense. The only other idea I have is using an infrared camera when it is dry and try to determine an area that is retaining moisture. Instead of many small leaks, it might just be one where a joint is disconnected.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 5:47 pm to TimeOutdoors
Another cool idea with the infrared camera. I did call the Company called American Leak Detection. They can find leaks by putting some kind of gas in the line and then listen for the leaks. It is my understanding that they can accurately locate the worst leak for right at $400. But then they leave, you fix the leak. If you have more leaks they can come back out and repeat the procedure for $125/hour. Then the process just keeps repeating. I didn't want to potentially chase after a lot of leaks.
But if I had access to a thermal camera I would try your idea to see if it is possible to see leaks that soak straight into the ground, totally not visible at ground level. I'm leaking 6100 gallons a month, and you would think that you could see some evidence of moisture or water by simply walking the property in the vicinity of where the water line should be. But I can't see any evidence of a leak. Even the leak I did find by digging the pipe up for about 12' from my water meter had me baffled. The PVC pipe had 5 tiny streams of water squirting out of it. The ground level was dry. The water was soaking straight down into the ground under the leaking pipe. I wonder if an infrared camera would spot that from ground level.
But if I had access to a thermal camera I would try your idea to see if it is possible to see leaks that soak straight into the ground, totally not visible at ground level. I'm leaking 6100 gallons a month, and you would think that you could see some evidence of moisture or water by simply walking the property in the vicinity of where the water line should be. But I can't see any evidence of a leak. Even the leak I did find by digging the pipe up for about 12' from my water meter had me baffled. The PVC pipe had 5 tiny streams of water squirting out of it. The ground level was dry. The water was soaking straight down into the ground under the leaking pipe. I wonder if an infrared camera would spot that from ground level.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 3/30/23 at 6:09 pm to 98eagle
quote:
Thanks. I wish I could run the line from the meter to the existing water line entrance and cutoff valve. Going that route would have me crossing an expansive amount of concrete driveway twice and one concrete sidewalk. The existing power line, gas line, and cable lines are all in my path underneath the concrete.
well then you can do what you can get access to and just leave the lines under the driveway.
you understand what im saying, replace all that you can and just hope the rest thats under concrete isnt bad.
also, you can call the water company and have them move your meter to the other side of the yard so you dont need to cross the driveway and they can just delete the old meter box connection
those are going to be your best options
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 6:11 pm
Posted on 3/30/23 at 6:59 pm to keakar
I totally understand what you are explaining and it makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately in my particular situation it would be a needle in a haystack type of event. It's hard to explain, but I don't really know the path that the existing water line takes from the water meter to the basement entrance on one side of the house. I know those two points but with trees and other obstructions, I could dig down where I think the water line might be and be perhaps 50' away. The house entrance is surrounded by a lot of concrete driveway and sidewalk. Between the meter and the entrance is perhaps 475' of trench length but to try and replace from the meter to where the driveways and utility congestion exists is about 100' from the house entrance. Even if I wanted to do exploritory digging, the pipe might be buried 18" deep as it was near the water meter. I could dig for days potentially. If I did find the line 100' from the existing house entrance and replaced the pipe between the meter and that point, I would have the additional risk that my leaks are in the 100' that I didn't replace. Then I would have about 150' or so pipe buried in the wrong direction.
So it's just too risky, although your idea is a fantastic idea in many situations. Hope that made sense.
Also my existing water meter was placed in the wrong location for my house. My water line is supposed to be buried in a utility easement from the road to my house property line. Instead the existing meter was installed 100' or so east of the easement. Based on the way trees exist in the area and the pipe I dug up near the meter it looks like my existing line improperly crossed my neighbors property at an angle to get to the easement. I couldn't replace new pipe across my neighbor's property and I explained that to the water department that my only choice was to put my new line basically on top of the water and gas company lines in the road edge back to the easement, or would they install a new meter in the easement, which is exactly what they did for me.
And it is a physical impossibility to place the meter anywhere to avoid driveways on the existing water entrance side. My house and my neighbors house share a driveway before our two driveways diverge. Our own personal driveways form a large circular driveway between our houses and we both have large concrete parking areas. My utility entrances on my house are completely surrounded by all of this concrete, and the gas and power lines are buried under the driveways on both sides. It's really a unique situation.
Unfortunately in my particular situation it would be a needle in a haystack type of event. It's hard to explain, but I don't really know the path that the existing water line takes from the water meter to the basement entrance on one side of the house. I know those two points but with trees and other obstructions, I could dig down where I think the water line might be and be perhaps 50' away. The house entrance is surrounded by a lot of concrete driveway and sidewalk. Between the meter and the entrance is perhaps 475' of trench length but to try and replace from the meter to where the driveways and utility congestion exists is about 100' from the house entrance. Even if I wanted to do exploritory digging, the pipe might be buried 18" deep as it was near the water meter. I could dig for days potentially. If I did find the line 100' from the existing house entrance and replaced the pipe between the meter and that point, I would have the additional risk that my leaks are in the 100' that I didn't replace. Then I would have about 150' or so pipe buried in the wrong direction.
So it's just too risky, although your idea is a fantastic idea in many situations. Hope that made sense.
Also my existing water meter was placed in the wrong location for my house. My water line is supposed to be buried in a utility easement from the road to my house property line. Instead the existing meter was installed 100' or so east of the easement. Based on the way trees exist in the area and the pipe I dug up near the meter it looks like my existing line improperly crossed my neighbors property at an angle to get to the easement. I couldn't replace new pipe across my neighbor's property and I explained that to the water department that my only choice was to put my new line basically on top of the water and gas company lines in the road edge back to the easement, or would they install a new meter in the easement, which is exactly what they did for me.
And it is a physical impossibility to place the meter anywhere to avoid driveways on the existing water entrance side. My house and my neighbors house share a driveway before our two driveways diverge. Our own personal driveways form a large circular driveway between our houses and we both have large concrete parking areas. My utility entrances on my house are completely surrounded by all of this concrete, and the gas and power lines are buried under the driveways on both sides. It's really a unique situation.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:58 pm to 98eagle
quote:
All inside PEX will be stiff pipe and not the rolls.
Just curious, why not use the rolls inside too?
I'm going to be doing a similar project soon, although not on as large a scale as yours. I've been trying to find a rental Pex A expansion tool, and also looking at pawn shops, but haven't had any luck.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 10:20 pm to indytiger
quote:
Just curious, why not use the rolls inside too?
I want straight pipe inside and do not want any pipe attached to the joists curving right to left, up and down, etc . Not only because I want a neat installation, but it makes it easier to run future cabling or pipes. Have a pipe run that is not basically straight takes up more room in whatever space you have. At least that's my reason for not wanting rolled pipe which has a memory to want to return to it's rolled version similar to a spring. I think it makes the installation look more professional and even adds value versus a messy looking installation.
Posted on 3/31/23 at 11:10 am to 98eagle
quote:
I want straight pipe inside and do not want any pipe attached to the joists curving right to left, up and down, etc . Not only because I want a neat installation, but it makes it easier to run future cabling or pipes. Have a pipe run that is not basically straight takes up more room in whatever space you have. At least that's my reason for not wanting rolled pipe which has a memory to want to return to it's rolled version similar to a spring
Yeah but the BEST way to run PEX and a lot of idiot plumbers don't understand this because its the harder way, is to run a SINGLE pipe with no fittings or connectors from your source to your fixture. Fittings is where you are going to have leaks. Plumbers love to use straight 10 or 20 ft sections and add 90s and what not where needed because its easier then spending time to run a single curved pipe.
Given that, where are you located? Depending on your soil and vegetation you could possibly easily cut this trench in half a day or it could take a week. But mostly likely this really isn't that hard of a job.
I would consider putting a valve box every 100 or 200ft wherever the rolls of 1" stop and you connect another roll. That way you can follow your line and have a valve to stop a leak if you have an issue.
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