Phrasing should have been that science shows that isn't all. I did not mean to say that counting calories doesn't work, just that there is more than that. But there are studies that show changing food and eating windows will reduce fat even if calories are the same.

OMAD Diet vs. Intermittent Fasting (16/8): Does One Meal a Day Work? Thomas DeLauer

16/8 Fasting Results: Study Investigates Short Term Fasting

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645638/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5064803/

Studies showing IF vs standard 3 meals while keeping the calories the same shows the IF groups losing more fat weight. There's more studies in DeLauer's video.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2673878/

There's the example of fructose causing more fat store than glucose at the same calorie. Other prime examples of what I'm getting at are things like preserving your muscle better by fasting than eating less if you are trying to lose weight because while fasting you boost growth hormone enormously while eliminating your hunger pangs of ghrelin. Not only that you get into autophagy and start healing the body while fasting. Or increasing your metabolism while fasting while lowering your resting body metabolism while reducing calories. There's other things at play than just simple math. Food and how you use it effects hormones too. If you want to just count calories you can, but surely you think a protein calorie is more important than a carbohydrate calorie. People wouldn't inject themselves with hormones like testosterone if hormones didn't matter, they very much do help.

WHY Sugar is as Bad as Alcohol (Fructose, The Liver Toxin)

Fasting vs. Eating Less: What's the Difference? (Science of Fasting)

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Posted by Contender01

Member since Dec 2017

247 posts

Posted on 12/3/18 at 11:46 am to bayouvette

Typ routine ?

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Posted by lsu777

Lake Charles

Member since Jan 2004

31230 posts

Posted on 12/3/18 at 9:22 pm to zatetic

Yet even intermittent fasting legends such as Martin berkham and Brad pilon will tell you that no research existing that shows that fasting causes faster fat loss than iso caloric when calories and protein are equalized.

I love intermittent fasting Be I know it does help beta receptors in the hard to burn areas. Maybe one day their will be science that backs it up but everything you linked doesn't when you account for protein and calories.

But not gonna argue other then this post as it would be hypocritical of me since I use IF heavily and macro cycling.

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Posted by Junky

Louisiana

Member since Oct 2005

8382 posts

Posted on 12/3/18 at 11:11 pm to Ted_Stryker

quote:
That's just thermodynamics

quote:
The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy, adapted for thermodynamic systems. The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but can be neither created nor destroyed. The first law is often formulated

Last I checked, the body isn't an isolated, or closed, system.

CICO may well violate the 2nd law though.

quote:
The second law of thermodynamics says that variation of efficiency for different metabolic pathways is to be expected. Thus, ironically the dictum that a "calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics, as a matter of principle.

Review: Thermodynamics of weight loss diets

quote:
The essence of the second law of thermodynamics is that it guarantees inefficiency in all metabolic processes. However, variation of efficiency is not excluded. In fact, the laws of thermodynamics are silent on the existence of variable efficiency. If efficiency can vary (as in the example of oxidative uncoupling) then "a calorie is a calorie" is no longer a true statement. The role of uncoupling proteins in humans, as indicated, is as yet incompletely defined [10].

quote:
The presence of high quantities of dietary protein (often a feature of low carbohydrate diets) is known to stimulate protein turnover, an energetically costly process. However, it is unclear whether this is the only factor, or whether it is necessary for metabolic advantage to occur. In particular, obligate gluconeogenesis from endogenous sources may also contribute to induction of protein turnover

Another take - so to speak...

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