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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 12/6/23 at 7:34 am to Vastmind
quote:
How can they determine if sleep was responsible when they are eating a starvation diet?
A) how do you know it was starvation? did you look at the tdee for each?
B) if diet and exercise are consistent and the only variable is sleep...how do you determine its not sleep causing the muscle loss?
all of these studies are correlation as you would have to have them hooked up to constant blood monitoring 24 hours a day to see what the body was doing due to lack of sleep and a bunch of patients laying in a bed isnt a very realistic study.
if you dont want to sleep 8 hours a day...dont, i dont give a frick, you dont need to justify it to me. I dont get 8 hours although i would like to.
as far as getting depression if sleeping over 8 hours a day...that was correlation and a very poor one at that. if you arent lifting heavy and trying to actively gain muscle/strength or in a cut, prolly dont need more than 8. but if you are...it helps.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 7:36 am to NewOrleansBlend
oh and if someone doesnt like the studies i posted....i posted a link to the database with those key words...go look at them yourself.
i dont mind having discussions but not gonna sit here in argue over something that is pretty universally accepted when talking about anti aging, muscle gain, longevity, fat loss etc
if anyone has a study showing sleep is not important then by all means...post them up.
i dont mind having discussions but not gonna sit here in argue over something that is pretty universally accepted when talking about anti aging, muscle gain, longevity, fat loss etc
if anyone has a study showing sleep is not important then by all means...post them up.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 11:05 am to lsu777
quote:
What in the hell do you have going on that would make it hard to get a full 8 hours and a consistent schedule?
Toddlers and babies
Posted on 12/6/23 at 11:42 am to lsu777
I was replying to the guy who posted a study and interpreted it as saying more sleep caused depression, not you. I'm pro sleep
Posted on 12/6/23 at 12:10 pm to NewOrleansBlend
yea didn't realize I responded to you at the start. meant to respond to him
Posted on 12/6/23 at 12:17 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
babies i get, but todlers...no. i have 3 kids and we got all of them on a schedule pretty quickly but i understand thats not everyone and not everyone is capable of letting him just cry it out either.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 12:48 pm to lsu777
quote:
babies i get, but todlers...no. i have 3 kids and we got all of them on a schedule pretty quickly but i understand thats not everyone and not everyone is capable of letting him just cry it out either.
I got a 3.5 and 2 year old. Only once a week do I have to get up probably.
Last baby coming in March though. Ready for my soul to once again leave my body for the first year. That first year and lack of sleep is rough!
Posted on 12/6/23 at 2:41 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
man first two i was able to get them on sleep schedule after like 3-4 months...last one my wife kept fighting me on the whole cry it out thing....finally told her...fine but im done. you can get up and handle it then. Lasted 2 days before i got my way 
Posted on 12/11/23 at 4:09 pm to SabiDojo
Sleep deprivation played a major role in wrecking my life.
Everything is interrelated, but if things are going well and sleep goes south on you, it will disrupt everything. Every bit of our physiology gets affected by sleep.
Please take care of your sleep. You can surge for a brief time but it will present real problems if you let a problem today linger, as it will become a crisis tomorrow.
If you go to pubmed, look to the left when you do a search, click on 'free full text' and 'review'. That will provide free articles that review the existing literature. If you see something with 'narrative review' in the title, that will be the easiest reading. The problem is that often in the abstract, a narrative review will not deliver the key take home message. You will find such a statement in meta analyses and systematic reviews, generally, but those papers can be a bit more difficult to digest.
I searched for 'sleep deprivation' with those two filters and got over 700 hits.
I'll post some abstracts that might be useful.
Everything is interrelated, but if things are going well and sleep goes south on you, it will disrupt everything. Every bit of our physiology gets affected by sleep.
Please take care of your sleep. You can surge for a brief time but it will present real problems if you let a problem today linger, as it will become a crisis tomorrow.
If you go to pubmed, look to the left when you do a search, click on 'free full text' and 'review'. That will provide free articles that review the existing literature. If you see something with 'narrative review' in the title, that will be the easiest reading. The problem is that often in the abstract, a narrative review will not deliver the key take home message. You will find such a statement in meta analyses and systematic reviews, generally, but those papers can be a bit more difficult to digest.
I searched for 'sleep deprivation' with those two filters and got over 700 hits.
I'll post some abstracts that might be useful.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 4:10 pm to POTUS2024
10. Can Vet J. 2023 Jun;64(6):579-587.
A narrative review of the pathophysiology and impacts of insufficient and
disrupted sleep.
BACKGROUND: Despite substantial ramifications of insufficient sleep on mental
and physical health and general well-being, many individuals are unaware of what
constitutes sufficient sleep, or of the short- and long-term extent of sleep
deficiency effects, including those that may not be perceived as fatigue.
OBJECTIVES AND PROCEDURES: This review describes the physiology of sleep,
defines healthy standards, reviews the pathophysiology and health hazards of
acute and chronic sleep insufficiency, and offers concepts for improving
individual sleep hygiene. Online databases were searched to extract literature
pertaining to sleep, sleep insufficiency, fatigue, and health, with emphasis on
literature published in the preceding 5 years.
RESULTS: The detrimental effects of acute and chronic sleep loss vary in their
range and impact. Individuals often obtain a substandard quantity of sleep, a
problem that is poorly recognized by individuals and society. This lack of
recognition perpetuates a culture in which sleep insufficiency is accepted,
resulting in serious and substantial negative impacts on mental and physical
health.
CONCLUSION AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Sleep management is one of the most
fundamental and changeable aspects of personal health. Improving awareness of
the important physiological roles of sleep, healthy sleep habits, and the
consequence of insufficient sleep is essential in promoting general well-being
and mental and physical health.
15. Curr Diab Rep. 2023 Jul;23(7):165-171. doi: 10.1007/s11892-023-01510-6. Epub
2023 May 6.
Sleep Apnea, Obesity, and Diabetes - an Intertwined Trio.
PURPOSE OF REVIEW: To synthesize the existing literature regarding the complex
interplay between sleep disturbance, obesity, and diabetes. The review
emphasizes the three pillars of health being diet, exercise, and sleep, with the
notion that if one is ignored, then the other two could suffer.
RECENT FINDINGS: Sleep deprivation is associated with incident obesity, perhaps
mediated by dysregulation in leptin and ghrelin - hormones important in
regulation of appetite. Sleep apnea is very common particularly among obese
people with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Treatment of sleep apnea has clear
symptomatic benefits although its impact on long-term cardiometabolic health is
less clear. Sleep disturbance may be an important modifiable risk for patients
at risk of cardiometabolic disease. An assessment of sleep health may be an
important component of the comprehensive care of patients with obesity and
diabetes mellitus.
29. Sleep Med Rev. 2022 Dec;66:101700. doi: 10.1016/j.smrv.2022.101700. Epub 2022
Oct 9.
Sleep, circadian biology and skeletal muscle interactions: Implications for
metabolic health.
There currently exists a modern epidemic of sleep loss, triggered by the
changing demands of our 21st century lifestyle that embrace 'round-the-clock'
remote working hours, access to energy-dense food, prolonged periods of
inactivity, and on-line social activities. Disturbances to sleep patterns impart
widespread and adverse effects on numerous cells, tissues, and organs.
Insufficient sleep causes circadian misalignment in humans, including perturbed
peripheral clocks, leading to disrupted skeletal muscle and liver metabolism,
and whole-body energy homeostasis. Fragmented or insufficient sleep also
perturbs the hormonal milieu, shifting it towards a catabolic state, resulting
in reduced rates of skeletal muscle protein synthesis. The interaction between
disrupted sleep and skeletal muscle metabolic health is complex, with the
mechanisms underpinning sleep-related disturbances on this tissue often
multifaceted. Strategies to promote sufficient sleep duration combined with the
appropriate timing of meals and physical activity to maintain circadian
rhythmicity are important to mitigate the adverse effects of inadequate sleep on
whole-body and skeletal muscle metabolic health. This review summarises the
complex relationship between sleep, circadian biology, and skeletal muscle, and
discusses the effectiveness of several strategies to mitigate the negative
effects of disturbed sleep or circadian rhythms on skeletal muscle health.
A narrative review of the pathophysiology and impacts of insufficient and
disrupted sleep.
BACKGROUND: Despite substantial ramifications of insufficient sleep on mental
and physical health and general well-being, many individuals are unaware of what
constitutes sufficient sleep, or of the short- and long-term extent of sleep
deficiency effects, including those that may not be perceived as fatigue.
OBJECTIVES AND PROCEDURES: This review describes the physiology of sleep,
defines healthy standards, reviews the pathophysiology and health hazards of
acute and chronic sleep insufficiency, and offers concepts for improving
individual sleep hygiene. Online databases were searched to extract literature
pertaining to sleep, sleep insufficiency, fatigue, and health, with emphasis on
literature published in the preceding 5 years.
RESULTS: The detrimental effects of acute and chronic sleep loss vary in their
range and impact. Individuals often obtain a substandard quantity of sleep, a
problem that is poorly recognized by individuals and society. This lack of
recognition perpetuates a culture in which sleep insufficiency is accepted,
resulting in serious and substantial negative impacts on mental and physical
health.
CONCLUSION AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Sleep management is one of the most
fundamental and changeable aspects of personal health. Improving awareness of
the important physiological roles of sleep, healthy sleep habits, and the
consequence of insufficient sleep is essential in promoting general well-being
and mental and physical health.
15. Curr Diab Rep. 2023 Jul;23(7):165-171. doi: 10.1007/s11892-023-01510-6. Epub
2023 May 6.
Sleep Apnea, Obesity, and Diabetes - an Intertwined Trio.
PURPOSE OF REVIEW: To synthesize the existing literature regarding the complex
interplay between sleep disturbance, obesity, and diabetes. The review
emphasizes the three pillars of health being diet, exercise, and sleep, with the
notion that if one is ignored, then the other two could suffer.
RECENT FINDINGS: Sleep deprivation is associated with incident obesity, perhaps
mediated by dysregulation in leptin and ghrelin - hormones important in
regulation of appetite. Sleep apnea is very common particularly among obese
people with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Treatment of sleep apnea has clear
symptomatic benefits although its impact on long-term cardiometabolic health is
less clear. Sleep disturbance may be an important modifiable risk for patients
at risk of cardiometabolic disease. An assessment of sleep health may be an
important component of the comprehensive care of patients with obesity and
diabetes mellitus.
29. Sleep Med Rev. 2022 Dec;66:101700. doi: 10.1016/j.smrv.2022.101700. Epub 2022
Oct 9.
Sleep, circadian biology and skeletal muscle interactions: Implications for
metabolic health.
There currently exists a modern epidemic of sleep loss, triggered by the
changing demands of our 21st century lifestyle that embrace 'round-the-clock'
remote working hours, access to energy-dense food, prolonged periods of
inactivity, and on-line social activities. Disturbances to sleep patterns impart
widespread and adverse effects on numerous cells, tissues, and organs.
Insufficient sleep causes circadian misalignment in humans, including perturbed
peripheral clocks, leading to disrupted skeletal muscle and liver metabolism,
and whole-body energy homeostasis. Fragmented or insufficient sleep also
perturbs the hormonal milieu, shifting it towards a catabolic state, resulting
in reduced rates of skeletal muscle protein synthesis. The interaction between
disrupted sleep and skeletal muscle metabolic health is complex, with the
mechanisms underpinning sleep-related disturbances on this tissue often
multifaceted. Strategies to promote sufficient sleep duration combined with the
appropriate timing of meals and physical activity to maintain circadian
rhythmicity are important to mitigate the adverse effects of inadequate sleep on
whole-body and skeletal muscle metabolic health. This review summarises the
complex relationship between sleep, circadian biology, and skeletal muscle, and
discusses the effectiveness of several strategies to mitigate the negative
effects of disturbed sleep or circadian rhythms on skeletal muscle health.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 4:11 pm to POTUS2024
37. Nutrients. 2022 Apr 8;14(8):1549. doi: 10.3390/nu14081549.
Sleep Deprivation: Effects on Weight Loss and Weight Loss Maintenance.
Papatriantafyllou E(1), Efthymiou D(2), Zoumbaneas E(3), Popescu CA(4),
Vassilopoulou E(1).
This narrative review presents the findings from intervention studies on the
effects of sleep deprivation on eating habits, metabolic rate, and the hormones
regulating metabolism, and discusses their relevance to weight loss efforts.
Disturbed sleeping patterns lead to increased energy intake, partly from
excessive snacking, mainly on foods high in fat and carbohydrates. The studies
focused mainly on the effects of sleep duration, but also of sleep quality, on
dietary intake during weight loss trials, and on weight loss maintenance. It is
important to explore sleep routines that could enhance the efforts of obese and
overweight people to lose weight, maintain their weight loss, and improve their
overall health.
39. Nutrients. 2022 Jan 18;14(3):420. doi: 10.3390/nu14030420.
A Time to Rest, a Time to Dine: Sleep, Time-Restricted Eating, and
Cardiometabolic Health.
Cardiovascular disease (CVD) poses a serious health and economic burden
worldwide. Modifiable lifestyle factors are a focus of research into reducing
the burden of CVD, with diet as one of the most investigated factors.
Specifically, the timing and regularity of food intake is an emerging research
area, with approaches such as time-restricted eating (TRE) receiving much
attention. TRE involves shortening the time available to eat across the day and
is associated with improved CVD outcomes compared with longer eating windows.
However, studies that have examined TRE have not considered the impact of sleep
on CVD outcomes despite recent evidence showing that sleep duration can
influence the timing and amount of food eaten. In this article, we argue that as
TRE and sleep influence each other, and influence the same cardiometabolic
parameters, experiencing inadequate sleep may attenuate any positive impact TRE
has on CVD. We examine the relationship between TRE and CVD, with sleep as a
potential mediator in this relationship, and propose a research agenda to
investigate this relationship. This will provide necessary evidence to inform
future interventions aimed at reducing the burden of CVD.
Sleep Deprivation: Effects on Weight Loss and Weight Loss Maintenance.
Papatriantafyllou E(1), Efthymiou D(2), Zoumbaneas E(3), Popescu CA(4),
Vassilopoulou E(1).
This narrative review presents the findings from intervention studies on the
effects of sleep deprivation on eating habits, metabolic rate, and the hormones
regulating metabolism, and discusses their relevance to weight loss efforts.
Disturbed sleeping patterns lead to increased energy intake, partly from
excessive snacking, mainly on foods high in fat and carbohydrates. The studies
focused mainly on the effects of sleep duration, but also of sleep quality, on
dietary intake during weight loss trials, and on weight loss maintenance. It is
important to explore sleep routines that could enhance the efforts of obese and
overweight people to lose weight, maintain their weight loss, and improve their
overall health.
39. Nutrients. 2022 Jan 18;14(3):420. doi: 10.3390/nu14030420.
A Time to Rest, a Time to Dine: Sleep, Time-Restricted Eating, and
Cardiometabolic Health.
Cardiovascular disease (CVD) poses a serious health and economic burden
worldwide. Modifiable lifestyle factors are a focus of research into reducing
the burden of CVD, with diet as one of the most investigated factors.
Specifically, the timing and regularity of food intake is an emerging research
area, with approaches such as time-restricted eating (TRE) receiving much
attention. TRE involves shortening the time available to eat across the day and
is associated with improved CVD outcomes compared with longer eating windows.
However, studies that have examined TRE have not considered the impact of sleep
on CVD outcomes despite recent evidence showing that sleep duration can
influence the timing and amount of food eaten. In this article, we argue that as
TRE and sleep influence each other, and influence the same cardiometabolic
parameters, experiencing inadequate sleep may attenuate any positive impact TRE
has on CVD. We examine the relationship between TRE and CVD, with sleep as a
potential mediator in this relationship, and propose a research agenda to
investigate this relationship. This will provide necessary evidence to inform
future interventions aimed at reducing the burden of CVD.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 4:12 pm to POTUS2024
30. Lancet Neurol. 2022 Oct;21(10):937-946. doi: 10.1016/S1474-4422(22)00210-1.
Sleep function: an evolutionary perspective.
Siegel JM(1).
Comment in
Lancet Neurol. 2022 Oct;21(10):862-864.
Prospective epidemiological studies in industrial societies indicate that 7 h of
sleep per night in people aged 18 years or older is optimum, with higher and
lower amounts of sleep predicting a shorter lifespan. Humans living a
hunter-gatherer lifestyle (eg, tribal groups) sleep for 6-8 h per night, with
the longest sleep durations in winter. The prevalence of insomnia in
hunter-gatherer populations is low (around 2%) compared with the prevalence of
insomnia in industrial societies (around 10-30%). Sleep deprivation studies,
which are done to gain insights into sleep function, are often confounded by the
effects of stress. Consideration of the duration of spontaneous daily sleep
across species of mammals, which ranges from 2 h to 20 h, can provide important
insights into sleep function without the stress of deprivation. Sleep duration
is not related to brain size or cognitive ability. Rather, sleep duration across
species is associated with their ecological niche and feeding requirements,
indicating a role for wake-sleep balance in food acquisition and energy
conservation. Brain temperature drops from waking levels during non-rapid eye
movement (non-REM) sleep and rises during REM sleep. Average daily REM sleep
time of homeotherm orders is negatively correlated with average body and brain
temperature, with the largest amount of REM sleep in egg laying (monotreme)
mammals, moderate amounts in pouched (marsupial) mammals, lower amounts in
placental mammals, and the lowest amounts in birds. REM sleep might, therefore,
have a key role in the regulation of temperature and metabolism of the brain
during sleep and in the facilitation of alert awakening.
Sleep function: an evolutionary perspective.
Siegel JM(1).
Comment in
Lancet Neurol. 2022 Oct;21(10):862-864.
Prospective epidemiological studies in industrial societies indicate that 7 h of
sleep per night in people aged 18 years or older is optimum, with higher and
lower amounts of sleep predicting a shorter lifespan. Humans living a
hunter-gatherer lifestyle (eg, tribal groups) sleep for 6-8 h per night, with
the longest sleep durations in winter. The prevalence of insomnia in
hunter-gatherer populations is low (around 2%) compared with the prevalence of
insomnia in industrial societies (around 10-30%). Sleep deprivation studies,
which are done to gain insights into sleep function, are often confounded by the
effects of stress. Consideration of the duration of spontaneous daily sleep
across species of mammals, which ranges from 2 h to 20 h, can provide important
insights into sleep function without the stress of deprivation. Sleep duration
is not related to brain size or cognitive ability. Rather, sleep duration across
species is associated with their ecological niche and feeding requirements,
indicating a role for wake-sleep balance in food acquisition and energy
conservation. Brain temperature drops from waking levels during non-rapid eye
movement (non-REM) sleep and rises during REM sleep. Average daily REM sleep
time of homeotherm orders is negatively correlated with average body and brain
temperature, with the largest amount of REM sleep in egg laying (monotreme)
mammals, moderate amounts in pouched (marsupial) mammals, lower amounts in
placental mammals, and the lowest amounts in birds. REM sleep might, therefore,
have a key role in the regulation of temperature and metabolism of the brain
during sleep and in the facilitation of alert awakening.
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