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Message
re: The Witcher 4 Reveal Trailer
Posted on 12/21/24 at 2:27 pm to Corinthians420
Posted on 12/21/24 at 2:27 pm to Corinthians420
Provide me evidence that they can, from the source material.
Just one will be fine.
Just one will be fine.
1
Posted on 12/21/24 at 2:28 pm to Roaad
quote:
Provide me evidence that they can, from the source material.
there is no evidence that they can or that they cannot, which is why it doesn't break lore that in the Witcher 4 that they can.
to "break" lore, the lore must be ESTABLISHED
Posted on 12/21/24 at 2:38 pm to Corinthians420
quote:correct
there is no evidence that they can
quote:I mean the page you took from Reddit proves they can't.
that they cannot
The Wizzies that made the mutagen didn't make them with females in mind, which Ves and Triss always assumed to be a durability issue but also likely because the mages thought it unthinkable a girl should be a Witcher (middle ages sexism and all). Later it is stated that it is likely also due to the hormones needed to extend the lifespan of the Witcher.
I don't remember the page numbers, and am not going to skim through all the books to find it.
Everyone who has read the source material knows what I just typed is accurate. As would you, had you read the source material.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 2:54 pm to Roaad
quote:
The Wizzies that made the mutagen didn't make them with females in mind, which Ves and Triss always assumed to be a durability issue but also likely because the mages thought it unthinkable a girl should be a Witcher
correct, none of this means that a female couldn't possibly pass the trial, just that that wasn't who it was designed for.
you take that to mean it is impossible, whereas as I stated, there could (and apparently will) always be a possibility new knowledge is discovered that allows them to perform the ritual on a female (or a desperate time calls for a desperate measure and they roll the dice despite it being likely unsuccessful). this isn't Dune where technology/knowledge stays stagnant for 10k years.
the seemingly impossible (or highly unlikely) has happened before in the books. Sapkowski himself has stated the world is merely a device to drive his characters, not the other way around like some other authors. If his world has to adapt to suit character growth, he is fine with that.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 3:27 pm to Corinthians420
quote:You are half right
correct, none of this means that a female couldn't possibly pass the trial, just that that wasn't who it was designed for.
Women can't survive it, because the mutagen is designed for males, hormonally as it turns out.
Now if they designed a mutagen for females, they could survive it. . .but it would be a different thing. But the ability to make mutagen AS IS is lost. . .much less to be able to create a completely new type of mutagen survivable by females.
quote:So does everyone else.
you take that to mean it is impossible
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 3:30 pm to Roaad
quote:
Women can't survive it, because the mutagen is designed for males, hormonally as it turns out.
You keep going back to the hormones argument but scientifically it would work the other way.
If it is purely based on hormones then both could survive it would just change the odds of survival. there arent any hormones that men and women do not share, they just have different levels.
would a female on steroids be more likely to survive it than a low T male?
quote:
quote:
you take that to mean it is impossible
So does everyone else.
what does this mean? I don't think it takes it to mean it's impossible, neither do the game devs. that means it's factually incorrect that EVERYONE else believes that. I just proved it.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 3:38 pm to Corinthians420
quote:We are talking source material explanation, not real world science
You keep going back to the hormones argument but scientifically it would work the other way.
quote:That is literally the point of what Triss is saying in the page you posted
what does this mean?
They want her to undergo the mutations for her protection, but know the last person with the knowledge of making the mutagen made them for males. . .and he is dead.
So they don't know how to do it.
Posted on 12/21/24 at 3:45 pm to Roaad
quote:
So they don't know how to do it.
knowledge lost is not lost forever, especially when we have a character that is capable of time travel.
quote:
We are talking source material explanation, not real world science
the source says that boys are more likely to survive so they chose boys.
boys are generally more durable and stronger so it only makes sense.
Ciri taking the trials will be an out of the norm scenario, and the narrative director has stated there will be lore reasons given why and how it occurs. He must be privy to info that you cannot comprehend at this point.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:07 pm to Corinthians420
quote:No it doesn't
the source says that boys are more likely to survive so they chose boys.
It says that boys rarely survive, and no girls survive. This led to Ves theorizing it is because of durability of the males that survive.
quote:Her powers don't work like that. If it did, Geralt would **SPOILERS** still be alive. and she wouldn't have needed Ihuaraquaks (frick if I remember the spelling) to heal anyone
knowledge lost is not lost forever, especially when we have a character that is capable of time travel.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:14 pm to Roaad
Are you retconning yourself now?
As we both agreed already, the trial was designed for boys, therefore works better on boys, therefore they choose boys.
of how many attempts? 1? 2? this isn't in the books.
If there were a bunch of attempts of girls trying and failing the trials it would be mentioned somewhere
As we both agreed already, the trial was designed for boys, therefore works better on boys, therefore they choose boys.
quote:
It says that boys rarely survive, and no girls survive
of how many attempts? 1? 2? this isn't in the books.
If there were a bunch of attempts of girls trying and failing the trials it would be mentioned somewhere
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:17 pm to Corinthians420
quote:2 before they stopped
of how many attempts?
quote:yes
the trial was designed for boys,
quote:fify
therefore works only on boys
quote:
this isn't in the books
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:17 pm to Roaad
quote:
2 before they stopped
thats in the video game. but let's use this as the lore confirmed number. do you not see how it could fail twice and still be possible in something with a 30% survival rate among boys?
it would be like flipping a coin twice and getting heads both times and saying that is proof tails is impossible.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:22 pm to Corinthians420
quote:That was the evidence YOU were using
thats in the video game
In the books it has never been tried, because it is designed for men, and men rarely survive.
Why would you give it to a woman, other than to kill her?
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:27 pm to Roaad
Everything you just said is why it isn't in the lore that it is impossible for a female to pass.
it has to be lore established that a woman CAN'T pass the trials for it to break lore.
there hasn't been enough research done in universe to know one way or another. any assumptions you make outside the universe are just that, assumptions. Yours will be disproven in the next game, that much has been confirmed.
it has to be lore established that a woman CAN'T pass the trials for it to break lore.
there hasn't been enough research done in universe to know one way or another. any assumptions you make outside the universe are just that, assumptions. Yours will be disproven in the next game, that much has been confirmed.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:31 pm to Corinthians420
quote:It would be like flipping a coin in which getting heads twice means you live, anything else and you die.
it would be like flipping a coin twice and getting heads both times and saying that is proof tails is impossible.
You believe that maybe hitting tails twice may also be survivable, but the guy who made the coin says there is the coin is only survivable by double heads, because he designed it that way.
to use your analogy
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:38 pm to Roaad
quote:
but the guy who made the coin says there is the coin is only survivable by double heads,
But he never has. He has intentionally left it vague when he could've said any time in the past 32 years that it wasn't survivable.
It's odd to me that you feel so confident speaking for someone else concerning their own material when they have been so careful not to.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 4:42 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:46 pm to Corinthians420
quote:least surprising thing you have ever said
It's odd to me that you feel so confident
quote:He said it was designed (with magic and hormones) for males (heads) and only rarely (double)
But he never has
Everything about females is blind postulating and/or wish-casting. It was designed for males, males are taken and rarely survive.
What would happen if a woman takes it? Well the people who it is designed by magic and medicine to mutate rarely survive, so. . .either it is poison to them, or it has no effect. Because magic in the Witcher universe isn't big on loopholes.
Even in the tabletop you attempted knows this, which is why in their universe the women take a completely different thing designed specifically for them. . .which does not exist in canon.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:55 pm to Roaad
quote:
What would happen if a woman takes it? Well the people who it is designed by magic and medicine to mutate rarely survive, so. . .either it is poison to them, or it has no effect. Because magic in the Witcher universe isn't big on loopholes.
if it is "poison" to females, how is that any different than to the 70% of boys that take it that die? having no effect seems very unlikely, as theres no lore cases of it having no effect on anyone, it either transforms them or kills them.
quote:
Because magic in the Witcher universe isn't big on loopholes.
you mean besides the whole sorceresses are infertile sometimes thing?
quote:
He said it was designed (with magic and hormones) for males (heads) and only rarely (double)
yes and you took what he said and turned it into something he didn't say, that it is "impossible" for females.
next time just say what you mean, you don't think Sapkowski intended for female witchers, because as the lore stands, he could write a female witcher tomorrow (as the game apparently is) that completes the trials, and it would not break any established rules of the universe.
This post was edited on 12/21/24 at 5:41 pm
Posted on 12/22/24 at 7:59 am to Corinthians420
quote:Exactly the point
if it is "poison" to females, how is that any different than to the 70% of boys that take it that die?
quote:They aren't magically infertile. Magic is used to physically alter them which generally means infertility. They don't have a spell of infertility cast on them.
you mean besides the whole sorceresses are infertile sometimes thing?
quote:-Magically and chemically designed for men
yes and you took what he said and turned it into something he didn't say, that it is "impossible" for females.
-still kills men usually
-Magic doesn't do loopholes
-The tabletop game YOU CITED is aware and has a different mutagen created for women
So you are left with 2 options with women. Either it has no effect (unlikely), or it kills them (almost assuredly)
quote:I mean that isn't my thinking, it is clear in his writings that there are no female Witchers.
you don't think Sapkowski intended for female witchers
Posted on 12/22/24 at 8:17 am to Roaad
quote:
I mean that isn't my thinking, it is clear in his writings that there are no female Witchers.
He didn't refer to Ciri as a witcher in his writings? you are the one that gave her a special designation of "honorary witcher", Sapkowski just wrote her in as witcher girl
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