Something I think gets overlooked/neglected in MMOs

EQ was brutal at times. Loved that game so much.

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To me, the key is to parse those rewards out enough to keep the player playing, but also balancing their worth so that even though each increase helps, each increment alone isn't OP.

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I think you’re right. I also think the devs have to consider how much gamer playing time will be created per dev time invested. They don’t have unlimited resources and in a subscription-based game coming up with efficient ways to keep players invested is paramount.

I just think that sometimes the over world has felt a bit empty and neglected in games, so I wanted to take a moment to point out some of my more enjoyable exceptions.

My gaming availability has been in steady decline since having kids. Used to play hours upon hours of Dark Age of Camelot on PC back in the early-mid 2000’s. Playing a little bit into 2011 or so. I’ve been longing for something with similar design ever since.


Now I just have the time for “pick up and play” type games on console but I keep looking for an excuse to get real into an mmo on console, if/when that right game is ever created. Played some Elder Scrolls which seems to be the cream of the crop for console, maybe that is as good as it will ever get

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My gaming availability has been in steady decline since having kids. Used to play hours upon hours of Dark Age of Camelot on PC back in the early-mid 2000’s.

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Same scenario here, though my addiction in that timeframe was being a dual-boxer on PS2's EQOA. My main on my primary account was the strongest and most popular main tank on the server. I played for hours every single day for a couple years, and there were many times when both my playstations ran 24 hours a day for multiple days because I would AFK my petter characters at the more common farming spawns for fellow guild members while I was at work, then again when I slept.

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Now I just have the time for “pick up and play” type games on console but I keep looking for an excuse to get real into an mmo on console, if/when that right game is ever created. 

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Same here, again. Kids are grown and out now, and I'd probably online play again in an MMO if the fit was right. It would have to be an MMO with a very deep customization system and plenty of non-repetitious soloable content though, for the days I just have a little while to play, or just want to play alone. I know that's diametrically opposite of what the traditional MMO is, but that's what it would take. In spite of the old EQOA not having a lot of soloable content, I was there long enough to become a pivotal member in a well respected guild of really good, mature people who actually helped each other.

I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when I tried playing ESO when it first released too. I'm sure personal maturity has a lot to do with it and I'm also certain I didn't stick around long enough to actually find some good people to run with, but I didn't last but maybe 2 months after soloing through the original main quest. I got tired of a bunch of little kids and immature adults who take themselves way too seriously, constantly wanting me to join their guilds, pay their exorbitant "dues" and then conveniently be "too busy" to help me when I rarely asked for it.

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I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when I tried playing ESO when it first released too. I'm sure personal maturity has a lot to do with it and I'm also certain I didn't stick around long enough to actually find some good people to run with, but I didn't last but maybe 2 months after soloing through the original main quest.

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ESO pretty much rebuilt the entire game in One Tamriel (2016, I think). I didn't play before that so I can only repeat what I've read and that the changes from OT completely changed the game for the better. I didn't play until somewhere around 2018-2019 (my first move away from DCUO) but really enjoyed the game and have returned to it a few times since then (played it solidly for a year back then).

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early-mid 2000’s

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To me, that was the golden age of MMORPGs.

Games were still subscription-based back then so developers needed to focus on interesting gameplay mechanics, customizations, add-ons, etc to keep players entertained enough to keep them invested enough to keep playing for hours each day. Along with that, those games were still niche back then. Their player base had increased but the majority was still the types of players who had frequented EB at the malls for new RPG games, the kind who were playing things like the original NWN on AOL, Meridian 59, The Realm Online, Shadows of Yserbius, etc.

Also, this was the beginning of the industry so behavioral and social norms were far from established. That lack of structure was attractive on its own as you never knew what you were going to encounter from the player base itself (much less the game). One of my favorite examples of this is the rooftop camper issue in Freeport and Qeynos (EQ).

3D MMOs were so new that the devs had no point of reference to think that if players could get to the roof of some building, they will. And then they'll use that to attack NPCs for exp, loot and/or just for shits-n-giggles, especially if they realize the guards have no ranged weapons.

There was almost no voice chat back then as bandwidth was still at a premium for many, so text chat and message boards were still the primary method of communication between players and with devs. That could lead to some very high levels of drama. I'm reminded of two characters busted cyber-sexing in a home they thought no other players went to. A player happened by and the two cyber-ers were in local chat instead of /tells. That outside player screencapped their chat and posted it on the forums.

That newness of industry is something developers can't create nor re-create, it happens as a result of the newness so it's impossible to manufacture. As the industry grew, it became more of a business rather than people who enjoyed gaming making games they would enjoy playing. The business idea is to attract as many potential customers as possible. Those customers, the ones not already fans of the genre, tend to be more transient, thus the games become more peppered with things players can do with less (or no) grinding. The idea then moved from creating content to keep players playing longer to creating content for players who are only logging in for a few minutes (thus min-maxing the player for their $$). That idea then led to games going F2P and P2W.

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Same here, again. Kids are grown and out now, and I'd probably online play again in an MMO if the fit was right. It would have to be an MMO with a very deep customization system and plenty of non-repetitious soloable content though, for the days I just have a little while to play, or just want to play alone. I know that's diametrically opposite of what the traditional MMO is, but that's what it would take.

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There's also the issue of having a fun and reliable group to play with. What kept me playing things like DCUO, EQ & EQ2 for so many years was not just the games themselves, but the guilds I was in. Those groups were low-drama but active without being power-gamers. When you find groups which fit comfortably, that can make or break a game.

Right now I'm in the same boat as you, looking for a fun MMO that I can spend anything from minutes to hours in and enjoy. I've got an eye toward Thone & Liberty (although Asian MMO art styles aren't my thing), Pax Dei and Ashes of Creation. My hope is that they have those grindy things parsed out enough to keep people playing for longer periods while still allowing players with less time to log in and do something (caravans in Ashes look like it may allow for something like this).

As time goes on, I look forward to seeing how AI can help create dynamic quests and events which make the gaming worlds more dynamic (not just player-built cities, but voxel worlds which can be physically changed over time but with loooots of effort).

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That lack of structure was attractive on its own as you never knew what you were going to encounter from the player base itself (much less the game). One of my favorite examples of this is the rooftop camper issue in Freeport and Qeynos (EQ).

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My Lord, you just brought back a plethora of memories!

I mentioned I was a dual-boxer so I had two accounts and literally each account had a max level toon in every slot, raid ready and some just for fun and grinding like my Sorc and Assassin. My main was a Dark Eelf Death Knight. He was 3 shy of being maxed out on class mastery points at the time I stopped playing. But I never made any race other than Dark Elf, so I was mostly certainly not welcome in Qeynos, except when I was playing my enchanter and used glam spells to fool the guards. So I can't say I recall the stuff in Qeynos, but I definitely remember people camping the roofs in Freeport. Seems like that was around the time that the level cap was still 50 in the early days, and part of the response by the devs was to add guards with ranged attacks that con'd red to level 50 players and were OP. When the expanded to Frontiers, those guards still con'd red.

Definitely spent a lot of time in Freeport in the early days, but later on myself and fellow guild members usually bound to Highpass or Kerplunk because it was so close to multiple XP grinding spots.

Man if they brought that game back just as it was but with modern graphics, I'd be all-in again 20 years later.

The crafting system in Star Wars Galaxies has never been equaled. It is easily the best resource gathering and crafting of any MMO.