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Message

Let's discuss Bioshock Infinite (Spoilers)
Posted on 8/7/13 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 8/7/13 at 2:41 pm
So, I know I'm behind the times on this game but if there are other people on this board who'd like to discuss it, I'd like to hear your thoughts and share mine.
Overall I loved it and I want to state right out of the gate its art direction and sound design are possibly the best I've ever experienced in any game.
My biggest issues with it were around the combat. Namely, I wish there were way less of it and what was there was more engaging. The rail system is under utilized and there needs to be more enemy variety.
It would be cool if, rather than always going to violence to solve a problem, there were dialogue options or exploration based puzzles that could get you to your objective. But this game doesn't exist if it’s not a first person shooter. That’s what sells these days and a company like 2K probably isn't going to throw a bunch of money at a first person adventure / puzzle game. It makes me sad, but I get it.
As far as the story and the way it's told, I can't think of another game that had my jaw dropping more often than this one. When you enter Columbia for the first time, when you see NYC under siege, when you are teleported to Rapture, and when you are shown the infinite lighthouses, it all had me in awe.
And while Infinite didn't fully explore the themes I initially thought it would, the game kind of needed to go to the crazy places it’s science fiction story takes it to set itself apart from the first Bioshock. And similar to the first Bioshock, Infinite touches on the role of the player in video games. No matter how many times you play it, the main plot points will turn out the same. Booker will never row the boat. The coin will always land on heads. Song Bird is always too powerful for Booker to fight. You can even view the multiple Bookers and Elizabeths at the end of the game as other people who are playing Bioshock Infinite. They are all having their own experience with minor variables, but the constants are all the same. Their experiences are just part of the infinite realities story. I’m not sure the game is saying anything profound here, but it’s a fun idea to toy around with and I like how it has meaning for both the player and the characters within the story.
What I’m wondering about now is where does Bioshock go from here? Have they written themselves into a corner? Will Levine return to a space/future setting for the next one, assuming he and Irrational make another Bioshock? I went into this game thinking there was no way Infinite would surprise me but it did. But now I’m really wondering how they can do it again when this game went SO far.
Overall I loved it and I want to state right out of the gate its art direction and sound design are possibly the best I've ever experienced in any game.
My biggest issues with it were around the combat. Namely, I wish there were way less of it and what was there was more engaging. The rail system is under utilized and there needs to be more enemy variety.
It would be cool if, rather than always going to violence to solve a problem, there were dialogue options or exploration based puzzles that could get you to your objective. But this game doesn't exist if it’s not a first person shooter. That’s what sells these days and a company like 2K probably isn't going to throw a bunch of money at a first person adventure / puzzle game. It makes me sad, but I get it.
As far as the story and the way it's told, I can't think of another game that had my jaw dropping more often than this one. When you enter Columbia for the first time, when you see NYC under siege, when you are teleported to Rapture, and when you are shown the infinite lighthouses, it all had me in awe.
And while Infinite didn't fully explore the themes I initially thought it would, the game kind of needed to go to the crazy places it’s science fiction story takes it to set itself apart from the first Bioshock. And similar to the first Bioshock, Infinite touches on the role of the player in video games. No matter how many times you play it, the main plot points will turn out the same. Booker will never row the boat. The coin will always land on heads. Song Bird is always too powerful for Booker to fight. You can even view the multiple Bookers and Elizabeths at the end of the game as other people who are playing Bioshock Infinite. They are all having their own experience with minor variables, but the constants are all the same. Their experiences are just part of the infinite realities story. I’m not sure the game is saying anything profound here, but it’s a fun idea to toy around with and I like how it has meaning for both the player and the characters within the story.
What I’m wondering about now is where does Bioshock go from here? Have they written themselves into a corner? Will Levine return to a space/future setting for the next one, assuming he and Irrational make another Bioshock? I went into this game thinking there was no way Infinite would surprise me but it did. But now I’m really wondering how they can do it again when this game went SO far.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 2:50 pm to DieDaily
Hope i can still cancel the room for tonight...
Posted on 8/7/13 at 2:51 pm to StealthCalais11
Now I need to go pick this game up again
I still have so many questions about the story, buts it been too long to remember all of them exactly. It will be interesting to see what they do next with series. I think the DLC coming out may have something to do with that

I still have so many questions about the story, buts it been too long to remember all of them exactly. It will be interesting to see what they do next with series. I think the DLC coming out may have something to do with that
Posted on 8/7/13 at 2:52 pm to Mr Gardoki
quote:
Hope i can still cancel the room for tonight...
Ouch. Oh well. It wasn't meant to be.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 2:56 pm to RTR America
quote:
I think the DLC coming out may have something to do with that
I'm definitely interested in the recently announced DLC, where Booker and Elizabeth are in a version of Rapture at it's peak.
I don't know if it will have any bearing on the main story but I'm not even sure I want it to. I'd be content with it being it's own little side adventure, another possible reality for them.
This post was edited on 8/7/13 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 8/7/13 at 3:03 pm to DieDaily
To discuss the game...
The art was gorgeous. This game didn't push the boundaries graphically which is ok with me because it was still good. Regardless the world was gorgeous. When I first got to Columbia... wow.
The game play was definitely the weakness which is funny. Coyote had the idea that perhaps it would have been better as a 3rd person shooter. Maybe some puzzles or other options would have been better. The combat was missing something for sure.
The story couldn't get much better than it already was. Troy baker is awesome. You fall in love with elizabeth. The ending was just stunning.
Honestly I can't decide my goty. This and last of us were great.
Looking forward to that
The art was gorgeous. This game didn't push the boundaries graphically which is ok with me because it was still good. Regardless the world was gorgeous. When I first got to Columbia... wow.
The game play was definitely the weakness which is funny. Coyote had the idea that perhaps it would have been better as a 3rd person shooter. Maybe some puzzles or other options would have been better. The combat was missing something for sure.
The story couldn't get much better than it already was. Troy baker is awesome. You fall in love with elizabeth. The ending was just stunning.
Honestly I can't decide my goty. This and last of us were great.
quote:
I'm definitely interested in the recently announced DLC, where Booker and Elizabeth are in a version of Rapture at it's peak.
Looking forward to that
This post was edited on 8/7/13 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 8/7/13 at 3:13 pm to Mr Gardoki
quote:
Coyote had the idea that perhaps it would have been better as a 3rd person shooter. Maybe some puzzles or other options would have been better. The combat was missing something for sure.
The 3rd person change did occur to me but I absolutely loved seeing everything in the game just as Booker saw it. I think the game loses something without the first person perspective.
The combat has a number of problems imo. Lack of enemy variety. Uninteresting weapons. Too many weapons (were the Vox weapon variants really needed?). Too many vigors that are too similar.
quote:
You fall in love with elizabeth.
And yeah, I really did get attached to her. When she's not there you feel it in a way other games haven't captured.
I'll be playing The Last of Us in a few weeks. I plan on writing a REALLY long post that no one will read on that one too.

Posted on 8/7/13 at 3:16 pm to DieDaily
I finished last of us last night so I will still be interested 

Posted on 8/7/13 at 3:56 pm to DieDaily
I thought it was alright. I enjoyed Bioshock much more.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 4:43 pm to DieDaily
Here's an old thread on reddit that gives you a good synopsis of everything. LINK
I'm kind of disappointed I couldn't experience the wonder of the story of this game first-hand. It came out before my PC build was put in motion and I didn't think I'd get it for free, so I watched a playthrough instead. Probably one of the more incredible stories I've ever seen in a game.
I'm kind of disappointed I couldn't experience the wonder of the story of this game first-hand. It came out before my PC build was put in motion and I didn't think I'd get it for free, so I watched a playthrough instead. Probably one of the more incredible stories I've ever seen in a game.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 7:35 pm to tehchampion140
I still haven't decided if I like it or not.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 8:07 pm to DieDaily
I thought it was terrible, the game play was archaic and the guns were shitty. The story was fine but this game shouldn't have taken so long to make when it's completely linear and nothing more than a single player shooter with no multiplayer. With like 5 guns (but you only get 2 at a time). fricking lame as hell for a shooter.
When the prompt came up to "Comfort Elizabeth." and I didn't get a choice, that's when I knew I hated the game. I didn't want to comfort her.
It would have been really easy to have a choice there where you can choose not to comfort Elizabeth and tell her to toughen up. Then her responses and attitudes toward you could have been different.
But the way it is, this game has zero replay value and is beatable in about 8 hours. I felt like an idiot for spending $40 on it.
When the prompt came up to "Comfort Elizabeth." and I didn't get a choice, that's when I knew I hated the game. I didn't want to comfort her.
It would have been really easy to have a choice there where you can choose not to comfort Elizabeth and tell her to toughen up. Then her responses and attitudes toward you could have been different.
But the way it is, this game has zero replay value and is beatable in about 8 hours. I felt like an idiot for spending $40 on it.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 8:12 pm to Stonehog
I don't really consider bioshock a shooter. I know it technically is but that is not what they focus on. It is odd how well received it is though considering most say game play is decent at best.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 8:15 pm to Mr Gardoki
Shooting is all you do though. The ONLY thing you do in the game is shoot stuff.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 8:18 pm to Stonehog
I thought the game was great for the reasons ID'd above (though I did find the combat got reptitiive and predictable at times), but this...
...to me is totally true. It was a great experience, but I simply can't imagine playing the game again.
quote:
But the way it is, this game has zero replay value and is beatable in about 8 hours. I felt like an idiot for spending $40 on it.
...to me is totally true. It was a great experience, but I simply can't imagine playing the game again.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 8:19 pm to Stonehog
quote:
Shooting is all you do though. The ONLY thing you do in the game is shoot stuff.
I agree. They need something else in there.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 8:27 pm to DieDaily
I don't know why so many object the violence and combat in the game. The story's themes revolve around violence and Dewitt's failure to escape his violent past. To avoid the violence in Infinite would be a complete contradiction of theme and narrative. It would be a ludo narrative. As far as the combat, it was nothing groundbreaking but it didn't need to be innovative, just solid and alot of fun. I think people forget how much you had to shoot in Bioshock; splicers were as much the bullet sponges as anything in Infinite. I loathe the combat in Bioshock 1.
From what I surmise, the Bioshock games will be wrapped up with the upcoming Burial at Sea DLC. I think Irrational will move on.
*The biggest flaw in the game is the awful, shockingly lazy NPC design/variety.
From what I surmise, the Bioshock games will be wrapped up with the upcoming Burial at Sea DLC. I think Irrational will move on.
*The biggest flaw in the game is the awful, shockingly lazy NPC design/variety.
This post was edited on 8/7/13 at 8:41 pm
Posted on 8/7/13 at 9:22 pm to Stonehog
quote:
The story was fine but this game shouldn't have taken so long to make when it's completely linear and nothing more than a single player shooter with no multiplayer.
I don't know. The development time didn't bother me. I think they were trying out a lot of different ideas and directions to go before deciding on where they landed. You can even see that the mechanics with Elizabeth worked differently by watching earlier gameplay videos. I'm glad there are developers out there who are successful enough to let all of their ideas marinate before a product is forced out the door. There aren't many who can do that, but Irrational is one of them.
I'm also REALLY happy there was no multiplayer. The "Shock" games (System Shock 1 & 2, and Bioshock) have always been about telling a really interesting story with a fun setting to explore. I wish the combat was better, as I mentioned above, but it only has no replay value if you didn't enjoy the game. I could see myself playing through it again in the same way I reread some of my favorite novels, which are also linear affairs.
quote:
With like 5 guns (but you only get 2 at a time). fricking lame as hell for a shooter.
The game actually has 9 guns and 13 if you include the Vox variations. The number of weapons weren't the problem, imo, it was the way they felt and how you used them. I do agree on you only getting to carry 2 at a time, though. The ability to upgrade a few weapons seemed at odds with the way the game forces you to scavenge different weapons off of enemies. I liked how in Bioshock 1 the shotgun I upgraded all throughout the game felt like *mine.* I had customized it for my purposes and felt a sense of ownership over it. It's not a big deal, but this whole upgrade system makes no sense from a narrative point of view. If I upgrade the hand cannon why are all hand cannons I pick up upgraded? Am I upgrading my skills with it? I guess, but that's not how it feels.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 9:33 pm to JombieZombie
quote:
The story's themes revolve around violence and Dewitt's failure to escape his violent past. To avoid the violence in Infinite would be a complete contradiction of theme and narrative.
I get what you are saying but the amount of required violence is still excessive. It begins to get to a point of feeling padded for length. You could have violence peppered throughout long sections of exploration and plot discovery and still get across that Booker is a violent man with a violent past.
It also doesn't help that Elizabeth is frequently sorrowful of the people you are murdering one minute and throwing you guns to slaughter more people with the next. It just feels at odds with itself sometimes.
And no, it doesn't *NEED* to be ground breaking but it could have been. The rail combat is a lot of fun when it's at it's best and incorporating more enemy types (like the Handyman) really could have elevated it.
Personally, I don't know that the combat in Infinite is better than the original Bioshock but it should be. The plasmids felt more unique and I really enjoyed the Big Daddy fights. You had to get the lay of the land and then could begin laying traps and planning how you wanted a battle to play out before ever engaging them. Infinite just seems to throw battle arena after battle arena at you.
quote:
*The biggest flaw in the game is the awful, shockingly lazy NPC design/variety.
I agree here, not to mention the way NPC's react or DON'T react to what you do. There are some places where NPC's can clip right through your character and they often seem to be oblivious to you stealing right in front of their faces.
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