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Why O might succeed vs why he might fail...
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:14 am
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:14 am
There are lots of reasons why Orgeron might succeed or fail as head coach at LSU. Please share what you think those factors are - be succinct and descriptive, the fact that you don't like the way he looks is not a good reason. Please be intelligent and not emotional with your argument.
I'll start. I think that Orgeron and Les Miles are alike in many ways, but I think that O has seen Miles up close and personal as a coach and knows why he ultimately failed at LSU. I think that he is wise enough and determined not to make the same mistakes. Things like hard-headedness to do things his way and unwillingness to address the obvious weaknesses in his method. I think he will lead, guide, and encourage the assistant coaches but not micro-manage them. I think he is willing to look at things honestly (Miles did not) and make changes when necessary. I also think that he is willing to give every player an opportunity to earn playing time, something that I think inspires players to perform, grow, and stay engaged with the team.
Whatcha got?
I'll start. I think that Orgeron and Les Miles are alike in many ways, but I think that O has seen Miles up close and personal as a coach and knows why he ultimately failed at LSU. I think that he is wise enough and determined not to make the same mistakes. Things like hard-headedness to do things his way and unwillingness to address the obvious weaknesses in his method. I think he will lead, guide, and encourage the assistant coaches but not micro-manage them. I think he is willing to look at things honestly (Miles did not) and make changes when necessary. I also think that he is willing to give every player an opportunity to earn playing time, something that I think inspires players to perform, grow, and stay engaged with the team.
Whatcha got?
4
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:27 am to Tigerinthewoods
I think he has changed drastically from his time at Ole Piss, O has let the coaches coach but still put some ideas and bounce them off of the people who "know more" about the x o's than him. He is one hell of a recruiter and this is his dream job so we dont have to worry about him jumping ship. He learned alot from Carroll and Johnson and the new practice system from the looks of it has our players fresher and much faster on game days. Miles was running our players into the ground during the week and we would be gassed halfway through the 3rd qtr.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:28 am to Tigerinthewoods
To me a red flag on Coach O was when he let an injured Fournette talk him into playing against Florida.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:28 am to Tigerinthewoods
I'll be even more descriptive:
Miles had a much better head coaching record than orgeron. Like night and day better.
And we just fired him to promote our D-line coach.
Why? Because of risky, intangible reasons like 'he learned his lesson'.
In what any other position in the world could you get hired at a 3 million dollar salary for based on those reasons?
It's amazing, really.
Miles had a much better head coaching record than orgeron. Like night and day better.
And we just fired him to promote our D-line coach.
Why? Because of risky, intangible reasons like 'he learned his lesson'.
In what any other position in the world could you get hired at a 3 million dollar salary for based on those reasons?
It's amazing, really.
This post was edited on 11/27/16 at 10:30 am
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:33 am to Tigerinthewoods
He's smart enough and humble enough to learn from his mistakes, and not stubbornly hang on to something if it isn't working. After the Ole Miss disaster he's done pretty well as interim coach when being dealt two shite hands. He seems fairly innovative and has some new ideas. He's willing to let his coaches coach. He's a great recruiter, maybe the best there is. And the players want to go all out for him.
OTOH, the big question in my mind is can he be a hardass when he needs to. For all his faults, Miles kept disciplinary problems to a minimum. Not entirely, because that's impossible, but we had far fewer issues than most schools. Can/will O suspend a player or even dismiss him from the team? Just as important, can he get rid of one of his coaching buddies if he's not working out? Loyalty to his friends led to Miles' downfall in the end. It might lead to O's downfall if he can't make the hard choices.
OTOH, the big question in my mind is can he be a hardass when he needs to. For all his faults, Miles kept disciplinary problems to a minimum. Not entirely, because that's impossible, but we had far fewer issues than most schools. Can/will O suspend a player or even dismiss him from the team? Just as important, can he get rid of one of his coaching buddies if he's not working out? Loyalty to his friends led to Miles' downfall in the end. It might lead to O's downfall if he can't make the hard choices.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:40 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Loyalty to his friends led to Miles' downfall in the end. It might lead to O's downfall if he can't make the hard choices.
This is one my main concerns as well, can he fire someone who is not doing his job well? We all agree that there are some on the staff who need to go, but coaches develop deep friendships in the trenches. Can he make the difficult choice to fire someone he cares about for the good of LSU football?
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:45 am to BK785
Ah, finally a rational discussion re the pros and cons of the O hire.
I think this is a good point. However, I think O views LF as somewhat of an anomoly ("He's a different cat", etc.) and gives him a lot of deference. I havent seen him do that with any other players. (For instance, Valentine's discipline/doghouse issue.) So Im not sure LF is a good measuring stick for whether he will discipline players appropriately.
quote:
To me a red flag on Coach O was when he let an injured Fournette talk him into playing against Florida.
I think this is a good point. However, I think O views LF as somewhat of an anomoly ("He's a different cat", etc.) and gives him a lot of deference. I havent seen him do that with any other players. (For instance, Valentine's discipline/doghouse issue.) So Im not sure LF is a good measuring stick for whether he will discipline players appropriately.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:48 am to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
We all agree that there are some on the staff who need to go, but coaches develop deep friendships in the trenches. Can he make the difficult choice to fire someone he cares about for the good of LSU football?
Fair concern. But he's already doing this. The news just hasnt been announced yet. So this concern has already been alleviated. (And dont ask me for my sauce - I am the sauce on this one.)
Posted on 11/27/16 at 11:12 am to Droplinebacker
quote:
the big question in my mind is can he be a hardass when he needs to
Suspended key for the A&M game (per nola.com). Risky when you consider what a loss would have done to his candidacy.
This post was edited on 11/27/16 at 11:13 am
Posted on 11/27/16 at 11:18 am to covlatiger
quote:
Suspended key for the A&M game (per nola.com). Risky when you consider what a loss would have done to his candidacy.
He's also put Valentine and tolliver on the bench for reasons. We've seen he'll discipline.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 11:27 am to Deuces
One thing I think is a positive is that he seems to be more in control of his emotions on the sideline (and elsewhere as well). None of the "rah-rah, wildboys" stuff that he exhibited at OM. Seems to be more in control and calculating - better for a head coach.
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