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re: So... EVGA ends partnership with Nvidia due to "disrespectful treatment"...
Posted on 9/20/22 at 10:35 am to finchmeister08
Posted on 9/20/22 at 10:35 am to finchmeister08
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:58 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:
$1599 for a 4090
The irony is that the 4090 might have the best performance per dollar of the announced stack. The two cards below it actually look worse
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:05 pm to Joshjrn
Sounds like more 4090's for me and Josh to choose from.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:12 pm to SaintEB
quote:
Sounds like more 4090's for me and Josh to choose from.
No matter which direction I end up going, I want to go water (hybrid or aio, not custom, probably...) so I'm going to be waiting a few months for everything to settle, regardless. I'm curious to see what AMD talks about on November 3rd, and I'm curious to see what prices look like in Q1 2023 when a lot of the 3000 series inventory has presumably been cycled.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:24 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
I want to go water (hybrid or aio, not custom, probably...)
I've only seen water cooled EVGA GPUs. How does their breakup with NVIDIA and GPUs in general affect finding this? I'm assuming other companies will make them.
Oh, and I don't think I'll be dropping 1600 on a GPU. But, never say never.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:31 pm to SaintEB
quote:
I've only seen water cooled EVGA GPUs. How does their breakup with NVIDIA and GPUs in general affect finding this? I'm assuming other companies will make them.
Oh, and I don't think I'll be dropping 1600 on a GPU. But, never say never.
I had honestly never seen another before either, but the EVGA announcement sent me into a panic rabbit hole. Turns out, EVGA just had a near monopoly on them, but others did exist like these two from Asus and MSI, respectively:
LINK /
LINK
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:51 pm to Joshjrn
As an update, MSI announced a hybrid version of the 4090, using only a 240mm rad which is... a choice...
Looks sexy, though. But I can't fathom a 240 rad being able to handle that much wattage comfortably.
quote:
Besides the air cooled versions of the SUPRIM series, this generation will also introduce a version with the name SUPRIM LIQUID. Only available on the GeForce RTX® 4090, this series applies a closed-loop liquid cooling system that keeps temperatures even lower to allow new levels of performance. The 240 mm radiator is cooled by a pair of MSI Silent Gale P12 120 mm fans, designed to provide massive air pressure at extremely low noise. A single TORX 5.0 fan on top of a dedicated heatsink ensures more than adequate cooling for the power delivery components.
Looks sexy, though. But I can't fathom a 240 rad being able to handle that much wattage comfortably.
This post was edited on 9/20/22 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:07 pm to Joshjrn
240 should be more then enough. A 120mm was sufficient for a 3090
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:11 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:
240 should be more then enough. A 120mm was sufficient for a 3090
That doesn't sound right at all considering current guidance regarding cpus. Was there even a 3090 that shipped with a 120?
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:25 pm to Joshjrn
I explicitly recall Linus doing a video on this. Obviously, the 240mm rad performed better, but the 120mm rad was something like sub 70C with full boosting
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:39 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:
I explicitly recall Linus doing a video on this. Obviously, the 240mm rad performed better, but the 120mm rad was something like sub 70C with full boosting
I’ll look for it when I get home. I’m just thinking about aio tests with cpus and I want to say that high end Ryzen cpus with boost TDP around 150w starting to get fairly toasty with a 240 and were throttling with a 120. But I could be misremembering as well.
But if that’s even close to on base, the 4090 is going stock at 450w and anyone paying a premium for water is likely going to want to push it to 500w and above. That’s a lot of heat to dissipate.
This post was edited on 9/20/22 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 9/20/22 at 4:47 pm to bluebarracuda
Alright, believe I found the video: LINK
His testing methodology was frustrating, because he didn’t track boost clocks beyond saying that the 120 matched the air cooled variant. Which… isn’t why people buy water cooled cards
In his perfect case scenario in which the radiator has unlimited fresh ambient air with no restriction, the 120 rad hit 68c and the 240 hit 48c, which having spent a fair amount of time in the AfterBurner frequency tables would mean a significant uptick in boost clock compared to the 120. When he tested the 360 (again, in perfect conditions) it only dropped 4c from there.
What this shows is that with zero air restrictions, a 120 is still frankly insufficient, because there’s zero point to moving to water if you’re just seeking the same performance as air. It showed that a 240 is probably sufficient, for a 350w TDP card. If he would have bumped the power limit, I imagine the 360 would start pulling away.
And the 4090 starts at 450w out of the box. Bump the power limit in AB and you’re easily topping 500w.
Can you run that on a 240? Sure, you probably won’t thermally throttle. Will you get the level of enthusiast performance out of the card that someone paying a premium for water cooling is expecting, including climbing up the frequency curve? I very seriously doubt it, because if a 360 is gaining 4c on a 240 at 350w, it’s going to gain far more than that at 500w, and better temps means better clock speeds. Selling a 4090 with a 240 is almost certainly gimping performance. How much performance remains to be seen.
ETA: And his testing was done with a custom loop, not an aio. I would expect a further separation between rad sizes in a system with less water mass and less powerful pumps, which is what you would see with an aio.
His testing methodology was frustrating, because he didn’t track boost clocks beyond saying that the 120 matched the air cooled variant. Which… isn’t why people buy water cooled cards
In his perfect case scenario in which the radiator has unlimited fresh ambient air with no restriction, the 120 rad hit 68c and the 240 hit 48c, which having spent a fair amount of time in the AfterBurner frequency tables would mean a significant uptick in boost clock compared to the 120. When he tested the 360 (again, in perfect conditions) it only dropped 4c from there.
What this shows is that with zero air restrictions, a 120 is still frankly insufficient, because there’s zero point to moving to water if you’re just seeking the same performance as air. It showed that a 240 is probably sufficient, for a 350w TDP card. If he would have bumped the power limit, I imagine the 360 would start pulling away.
And the 4090 starts at 450w out of the box. Bump the power limit in AB and you’re easily topping 500w.
Can you run that on a 240? Sure, you probably won’t thermally throttle. Will you get the level of enthusiast performance out of the card that someone paying a premium for water cooling is expecting, including climbing up the frequency curve? I very seriously doubt it, because if a 360 is gaining 4c on a 240 at 350w, it’s going to gain far more than that at 500w, and better temps means better clock speeds. Selling a 4090 with a 240 is almost certainly gimping performance. How much performance remains to be seen.
ETA: And his testing was done with a custom loop, not an aio. I would expect a further separation between rad sizes in a system with less water mass and less powerful pumps, which is what you would see with an aio.
This post was edited on 9/20/22 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 9/21/22 at 8:31 am to finchmeister08
So the 12gb 4080 is actually more of a 4070. Yet Nvidia is selling it for $900 while the 3070 launched at $500. WTF are they doing?!
Posted on 9/21/22 at 9:35 am to MetroAtlantaGatorFan
Yep. And I think they are intentionally pricing this release to push people into clearing out 30 series stock.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 7:56 pm to Joshjrn
I envy you researching so much. I used to do that back in the day, and now I just don't have the energy for it.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 12:05 pm to brucevilanch
quote:
I envy you researching so much. I used to do that back in the day, and now I just don't have the energy for it.
That kind of tech nerd deep dive is zen for me. I have a hard time shutting my brain off, so if you give me something just detail oriented and tedious enough, it will get my brain to focus on that, but it doesn't actually require much effort or energy.
Because believe me, I hear you on the lack of energy. The first time I sat down to game and was honest with myself that I just didn't have the energy for it made me feel very, very old
To revist the subject of AIO gpus in the 40 series, these are the ones that have been announced thus far, all 4090s:
MSI Suprim Liquid:
Colorful Neptune:
Inno3D iCHILL Black:
Posted on 10/1/22 at 8:43 am to Joshjrn
And we've added another player to the game:
Gigabyte 4090 Aorus Waterforce
Gigabyte 4090 Aorus Waterforce
This post was edited on 10/1/22 at 2:34 pm
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