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The Josh Hart Mystery

Posted on 8/8/21 at 7:04 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20655 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 7:04 am
What do y'all think is happening with Josh Hart? I can think of several scenarios:

1) A tentative deal to send Hart to another team in a sign-and-trade is already in place, but that deal has been held up by something else (maybe on the other team's end).

2) Griffin is still trying to negotiate such a deal.

3) Hart was unable to get any offers that were attractive enough, so he's going to sign the $5.2 million qualifying offer and become a UFA after this season (this seems unlikely to me).


Josh Hart came to the Pelicans enthusiastically in the Lakers trade. David Griffin had three offers for Hart that year for picks between 20 and 30 in the first round, but Hart asked Griffin to keep him.

Hart has been tough and physical, and he plays hard every night, but there's some evidence that he has recently soured on the franchise. He and JJ Redick share the same agent, and Redick said that his agent would never trust David Griffin again. Hart also made a couple of social media posts indicating that he was unhappy with how we treated Redick. There was also the bit at the beginning of last season where he expressed disappointment that he couldn't get time last summer with Fred Vinson to work on his shot.

I would say that Josh Hart has a very limited role in our offense. His one-man fast breaks are legendary, but all he can do in the halfcourt is shoot 3s at a 33% rate ... and we have other players who can do that significantly better.

Defensively, he's an elite rebounder for his position -- both of the last two years, he's been in the top 5 non-big players for total rebound percentage. He's tough and willing to dive for loose balls, but he is only an average on-ball defender.

Overall, according to Cleaning the Glass, Hart had an on/off differential of negative 0.7 points per 100 possessions, meaning that we were better off last season with him off the court than on it. Hart's other advanced stats are mixed: positive VORP and WS, but a negative BPM.

I really believe that we have replaced Hart and don't have much use for him. Sato is a better offensive player who can play 1-3, and Naji and Didi are better defenders. When we talk about the primary backup SF for Ingram, I would really like that to be Trey Murphy.

Last season, I really liked for Hart to play with Jaxson, because Hart made up for Jaxson's poor rebounding, but I think that Jaxson is gong to improve his strength and rebounding this offseason (assuming his legal issues are resolved, blah, blah, blah).

Even though he is only 26, I also felt that he was a valuable veteran presence last season, injecting some intensity and grit into the team, but I now feel that we replaced that with Garrett Temple.

I have personally come around to the opinion that our front office extended the $5.2 million QO this offseason strictly to work a S&T and get something back for Hart. I think a team like Sacramento could really use his toughness and grit, so I still like the idea of using him in a Hield trade, but we'll see.
Posted by rondo
Worst. Poster. Evar.
Member since Jan 2004
77493 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 7:10 am to
All I take from this is "frick jj redick"

Who did he think he is that he can put the team on blast because they didn't trade him to the nets.

Maybe the Mets didn't want to trade for his old hurt arse
Posted by GO_LSU
Bywater
Member since Aug 2005
745 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 7:46 am to
quote:

"frick jj redick"


It’s hilarious that we picked up Garret Temple, who locked him down in the sweet sixteen, ended his duke career, and made him cry on TV
Posted by LSUJD_04
Member since Feb 2021
1513 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 9:52 am to
I like Hart and I think it was bullshite he couldn’t get time with Vinson to work on his shot because if he became even a 37% guy rather than a 33% it would be noticeable. With us needing guard play as well as people who can defend multiple positions i works like to see him back but it’s got to be at the right price. I’m not sure what he’s looking for as far as salary goes but the MLE is about where I’d value him and that’s a nice raise from what he was making. Hart will never be a starter for a contender but he can absolutely be one of your best bench and team guys. Like you said though, we have similar guys in Naji, Didi and Temple now so who the hell knows.
This post was edited on 8/8/21 at 10:07 am
Posted by J_Hingle
LA
Member since Jun 2013
5381 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:00 am to
Man if he could get back to that rookie year 3 point percentage, money. I never went back and looked but for anyone who has followed him, did he always have that slight fadeaway / hitch on his shot from 3? It was pretty noticeable last season
This post was edited on 8/8/21 at 10:01 am
Posted by SCP
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2016
1337 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:01 am to
Get the best value for Hart one way or another. I don't care how.

F@#$ JJ!
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:04 am to
I suspect if he comes back he will get the time he wanted with Vinson.

And I still argue, and continue to, that Hart is a offseason with Vinson away from being a championship level glue guy that can fit on pretty much any roster.

I personally would like to have him back unless it really is in a trade for a starter like Buddy, Barnes, or a player of that caliber.
Posted by J_Hingle
LA
Member since Jun 2013
5381 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:06 am to
Completely agree. At time last season, he was the only player that kept me watching the games lol.
Posted by LSUJD_04
Member since Feb 2021
1513 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:11 am to
I’m not sure but that is exactly why he needs gym time with Vinson because that fadeaway shite I’d fricking him up. He could be a 40% guy if he worked at it and then his value would be worth what imagine he thinks it is right now. It might be best for him to take the QA for $5.2 or whatever it is and work with Vinson then try to get a big deal next year from somewhere.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:19 am to
Problem is, not sure there would be much incentive for the organization to commit to Hart (Vinson wise) if Hart is basically going to tell the franchise I’m only here to use you guys to bring up my value for another team.

Kinda feel like he needs to either give us a couple years, or he needs to recognize if he is going the QO offer, we got long-term pieces that are going to get priority over him.
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
73893 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:42 am to
quote:


I like Hart and I think it was bullshite he couldn’t get time with Vinson to work on his shot


A harder dude would’ve found the time and a way to improve, instead of publicly complaining about not getting time with the coach. That’s who we thought Hart was. “Do the work”, as they say

Now he gives off the perception of a meh player who thinks he’s better than the crappy team he’s on. Which is hard to stomach, bc he’s not as good as he thinks he is
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31862 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:43 am to
quote:

Hart is basically going to tell the franchise I’m only here to use you guys to bring up my value for another team.


I told yal this last year. He is a me player who worries about only himself, his stats, and how to max his money.

He's a selfish player that whines in the background all the fricking time.

If he wasn't, you don't think we'd have signed him to a 3/30 already? Graham is better and he didn't break the bank in comparison
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 10:49 am to
I really hate how some of you don’t bother to even try and find proper context? You just make up head cannon and run with it.

Hart didn’t complain, he was asked a question and gave an answer and explained the why behind it. There was no complaining, maliciousness, or ill will, he just said his goal he needs to work on with his game is definitely shooting, and he hopes to find the time with Vinson in the future, but that both thought it best not to really attempt to half arse it because it could have unintended negative consequences. That given the prior commitments and the condensed and restricted offseason they felt there wasn’t the proper space to give his desire to rework his jumper the time it needed.

We also don’t know what the frick is going on with Hart and FA. They might be negotiating a three year contract, a prove it deal, a S&T, or yeah, maybe he’s throwing a hissy, but there is zero evidence of that. The guy ha seven a model citizen, like BI. It blows my mind how many people want to trash the few players that actually have voiced happiness being in New Orleans
This post was edited on 8/8/21 at 10:52 am
Posted by TotesMcGotes
New York, New York
Member since Mar 2009
27900 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 11:37 am to
I like Fred Vinson, but holy hell some of the things said about the guy would lead you to believe he’s Midas or something.
Posted by supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
12812 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 11:43 am to
Vinson works with you to tweak your mechanics but it's still up to the player to put in the work on his own time to actually improve. That's where the most understated thing that doesn't get mentioned nearly enough when people talk about his improvements. Ball worked hard to improve that shot and it shows.

Hart hasn't really improved much or at all since he entered the league.

I think Hart may not necessarily feel he needs to tweak his mechanics as I never sensed that there was a desire improve his shot.
This post was edited on 8/8/21 at 11:46 am
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
73893 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 11:51 am to
quote:


I think Hart may not necessarily feel he needs to tweak his mechanics as I never sensed that there was a desire improve his shot.



He finally acknowledged his shot needed fixing, of course it was going into his contract year. Then in the next breath offered up injuries and not getting time with Vinson as the reason why he was just going to stick with his old shot.

It’s weird bc he even hinted that he could piggyback off of the other guys’ sessions with Vinson. Wouldn’t JJ be a great resource for honing in your shot? Guy is obsessive about shooting the ball and is Hart’s boy. Just seems like a lot of excuses for a guy who has never shot it particularly well
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 11:56 am to
Doubling down on the made up stupidity and slander I see
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
73893 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 12:09 pm to
You may be too emotionally invested in said player. Perhaps your context of the Josh Hart Podcast is off?

Dude said slander
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 12:26 pm to
I’m not the one making up head cannon and writing chapters of made up and contorted bullshite about the mental state and personality of a player you never met and don’t even know.

This inferiority complex some Pels fans have where they have this incessant need to exaggerate and trash, by all accounts, good well meaning players on a personal level because they don’t like their on the court game is…bizarre
This post was edited on 8/8/21 at 12:28 pm
Posted by aswemajor
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2011
1728 posts
Posted on 8/8/21 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

He finally acknowledged his shot needed fixing, of course it was going into his contract year. Then in the next breath offered up injuries and not getting time with Vinson as the reason why he was just going to stick with his old shot.


Okay this isn’t how shooting works. Players are constantly making small tweaks to their shots and the art of shooting is a constant evolution. He doesn’t have 2 different shot forms he switches between. Hart’s mechanics aren’t horrible. He doesn’t need a full reboot, just some minor touch ups.
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