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re: Serious question for liberals. This is not bait!
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:45 am to David_DJS
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:45 am to David_DJS
quote:
You need to spend some time outside of the cushy confines of the US. You are uneducated, and you need your eyes opened.
To be clear, I have issues with the form of capitalism we now practice in the US (not competitive enough), but that's at the margin. You have to be retarded to not realize capitalism doesn't deliver best for everyone in the economy. Poor Americans don't live as well, and in some ways better, than the average European by accident.
Because we disagree on some points—and because you misunderstand my position—I am clearly uneducated.
My point was that images 1 and 4 could easily depict our current U.S. conditions. 2 could have been a supermarket during this pandemic (which has been exacerbated by an erratic, inept, and immoral GOP response spearheaded by Trump). And 3...I don't even know what that is...because it's a meme that's trying to reduce real discussion into black and white terms.
At the end of the day, "at the margin" is the part I'm trying to debate here. I think it's more than "at the margin." I think we have a form of capitalism that is tied to a two-party government that unabashedly protects the interests of the rich and corporations over everything else. You read that right: Republicans and Democrats. But our form of capitalism doesn't have to be that way. And it could be better. There are actual policies that exacerbate income inequality—and there are policies that reduce it. We have the data and examples from our own capitalist system. Also, you're ignoring that the U.S. is slipping in relation to some European countries with regard to quality of life metrics, including healthcare and life expectancy.
At the end of the day, some of y'all take this approach that when someone says, rationally, let's try to do better with x, you respond as if you're personally attacked...and maybe you are...maybe you're worried that a designed system that works for you but not others might suddenly stop working for you. It's like in your protest against change you acknowledge that our current system isn't actually fair or just.
2
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:52 am to TigerAlum2006
Or it could just be that you are an ideologically-possessed Leftist who disdains Individual Liberty, self-reliance and free markets and favors catastrophic State "solutions" because of the aforementioned ideological-possession.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 1:20 pm to TigerAlum2006
quote:
Because we disagree on some points—and because you misunderstand my position—I am clearly uneducated.
My point was that images 1 and 4 could easily depict our current U.S. conditions. 2 could have been a supermarket during this pandemic (which has been exacerbated by an erratic, inept, and immoral GOP response spearheaded by Trump). And 3...I don't even know what that is...because it's a meme that's trying to reduce real discussion into black and white terms.
At the end of the day, "at the margin" is the part I'm trying to debate here
Do you see your inconsistency here?
You can't being speaking "at the margin" and also make the suggestions you have.
quote:
I think we have a form of capitalism that is tied to a two-party government that unabashedly protects the interests of the rich and corporations over everything else. You read that right: Republicans and Democrats. But our form of capitalism doesn't have to be that way. And it could be better. There are actual policies that exacerbate income inequality—and there are policies that reduce it. We have the data and examples from our own capitalist system. Also, you're ignoring that the U.S. is slipping in relation to some European countries with regard to quality of life metrics, including healthcare and life expectancy.
I agree with some of this. Capitalism as it's practiced today has been corrupted. Interestingly, coincident to this is the change in the politics of the ultra-wealthy. Further, it's not the poor that are hurt by this, it's the middle class.
quote:
There are actual policies that exacerbate income inequality
Yes. Like open borders and the flooding of unskilled labor in the market, which is little more than a wealth transfer program benefiting the wealthy.
quote:
At the end of the day, some of y'all take this approach that when someone says, rationally, let's try to do better with x, you respond as if you're personally attacked...and maybe you are...maybe you're worried that a designed system that works for you but not others might suddenly stop working for you. It's like in your protest against change you acknowledge that our current system isn't actually fair or just.
No. I don't feel personally attacked. I was responding to your inference that the poor in America are NOT better off because of capitalism, even the convoluted version we practice today. Your point about images 1 to 4 was ignorant, and that's why I suggested you should spend some time outside the US to see how the rest of the world lives.
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