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Started By
Message
2007 vs 2019 Championship Miles/Orgeron
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:05 am
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:05 am
I was thinking about past championships. And Miles won the championship 3 years after taking over. Orgeron won 3 years after taking over. After Miles won plenty of people were saying he won with Saban’s players that it wasn’t really his. No one is saying that about Orgeron won with Miles’ players. This isn’t a debate on that cause I think It’sa dumb argument. But why the difference in that between the coaches? Orgeron is more liked as a person than Miles? The changing of the office being “Orgeron’s” (even though that doesn’t make difference of players personnel)? Same amount of years different mentality of that.
In before TLDR
In before TLDR
This post was edited on 1/16/20 at 9:06 am
12
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:07 am to LSUtiger89
Always been a dumb take. Both coaches won with a healthy amount of "their" players
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:07 am to LSUtiger89
because Miles took over after SABAN left of his own choice and O took over from MILES after he was FIRED!
Big difference in the "3 years" thing
ETA: I agree it is a dumb take. I was just explaining the reason for the difference
Big difference in the "3 years" thing
ETA: I agree it is a dumb take. I was just explaining the reason for the difference
This post was edited on 1/16/20 at 9:09 am
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:08 am to LSUtiger89
Miles was a lazy dumbass. Orgeron is an innovative workaholic.
/thread
/thread
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:11 am to LSUtiger89
I always thought it was a dumb argument too. But, I'll give you three reasons.
Ed has earned more respect than Les because of the respective state of the program that each inherited. Saban built a powerhouse. Les slowly dismantled it over many years.
Also there is no question of whose QB won this years's game. Borrow would not be here if Les was the coach.
Finally, Ed was the recruiting coordinator for all these players. They are his.
Ed has earned more respect than Les because of the respective state of the program that each inherited. Saban built a powerhouse. Les slowly dismantled it over many years.
Also there is no question of whose QB won this years's game. Borrow would not be here if Les was the coach.
Finally, Ed was the recruiting coordinator for all these players. They are his.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:12 am to LSUtiger89
IMO Miles suffered largely cuz he followed Saban who changed everything up at LSU and left basically on top.
O took over after the fanbase grew tired of Miles due to an unwillingness to adapt.
I agree with previous poster, it was always a really dumb take. Three years is a lot of development time and both coaches developed the talent and continued to bring in new great talent at each of the respective times.
And Miles’ struggles was never really recruiting or developing good players. It was always just Quarterback development and offensive progression/keeping up with the needed style of play.
I’m thankful for both Miles’ work in 07 and O’s work in 19 and both deserve credit for what they accomplished.
O took over after the fanbase grew tired of Miles due to an unwillingness to adapt.
I agree with previous poster, it was always a really dumb take. Three years is a lot of development time and both coaches developed the talent and continued to bring in new great talent at each of the respective times.
And Miles’ struggles was never really recruiting or developing good players. It was always just Quarterback development and offensive progression/keeping up with the needed style of play.
I’m thankful for both Miles’ work in 07 and O’s work in 19 and both deserve credit for what they accomplished.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:13 am to LSUtiger89
It is also a different era of college football with Juniors declaring for the draft. There were not that many players that were Miles players on this team who were huge contributors.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 9:40 am to LSUtiger89
The 2007 team had a lot more starters that were seniors than this year's team. Those 2007 seniors were brought to LSU by Saban and spent their entire first year with him as their coach while Les Miles was still at Oklahoma State. The majority of our starters this year weren't at LSU yet when Miles was let go and even the seniors who were here, Orgeron was the recruiting coordinator when they were brought in.
Plus under Orgeron, LSU completely changed the type of offensive scheme that LSU was running under Miles, which was the biggest reason for success this year.
To be fair to Miles, a fair number of contributors on the 2007 team were his recruits. But he did reap far more benefits of what the previous coach left behind than what Orgeron did. And he got lucky that 2007 was probably the most chaotic year I can remember in college football history with top teams being upset so often. Because I don't remember any other season where a 2 loss team got to play in a national title game.
Plus under Orgeron, LSU completely changed the type of offensive scheme that LSU was running under Miles, which was the biggest reason for success this year.
To be fair to Miles, a fair number of contributors on the 2007 team were his recruits. But he did reap far more benefits of what the previous coach left behind than what Orgeron did. And he got lucky that 2007 was probably the most chaotic year I can remember in college football history with top teams being upset so often. Because I don't remember any other season where a 2 loss team got to play in a national title game.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:03 am to bulletprooftiger
quote:
Saban built a powerhouse. Les slowly dismantled it over many years.
How old are you? Nick lost fewer than three games 1 time in five years at LSU and never had an undefeated regular season. We were respected when he left but not a powerhouse. Otherwise we wouldn’t have hired some random dude from Oklahoma State who no one had ever heard of. Nick started something great. Les built upon it and he was the HC when we became elite. He got stubborn and wouldn’t change. By the time he was let go, it was absolutely time but to pretend like the guy just came in and stumbled his way through is asinine.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:06 am to BananaHammock
quote:
Miles was a lazy dumbass.
This couldn't be further from the truth.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:08 am to crazyLSUfan
quote:
IMO Miles suffered largely cuz he followed Saban who changed everything up at LSU and left basically on top.
MILES suffered because of MILES.
Egotistical and stubborn to the point that he willingly surrendered an NC to Alabama without putting up a fight.
Would we have won, not likely, but surrendering is not in LSU's DNA.
Then, after he was given a chance, he continued to refuse to make things happen.
No one to blame but MILES.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:10 am to BananaHammock
quote:
Miles was a lazy dumbass. Orgeron is an innovative workaholic.
it's amazing how clueless you are
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:12 am to LSUtiger89
quote:
No one is saying that about Orgeron won with Miles’ players
thought O is a recruiting guru? maybe he had a hand in recruiting a lot, maybe most, of these players?
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:17 am to LSUtiger89
Ed O was on staff since 2015 though so he recruited a lot of "miles'" guys.
Burrow was coach O, Brady was coach O, ensminger as OC was coach O. This historic offense was coach O's doing and that along with Burrow are the main reason we dominated.
Burrow was coach O, Brady was coach O, ensminger as OC was coach O. This historic offense was coach O's doing and that along with Burrow are the main reason we dominated.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:17 am to LSUtiger89
It may be because Ed O. was already a part of the team helping Miles recruit players.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:21 am to DamnStrong1860
quote:
Otherwise we wouldn’t have hired some random dude from Oklahoma State who no one had ever heard of
Skip specifically hired someone who would be at LSU for the long haul. He basically felt any good to great coach could win at LSU so let's get one that won't bolt like saban did. He was never going to hire some hot name coach. Remember, he told petrino to kick rocks in that coaching search.
quote:
Les built upon it and he was the HC when we became elite. He got stubborn and wouldn’t change. By the time he was let go, it was absolutely time but to pretend like the guy just came in and stumbled his way through is asinine.
Saban at LSU wins a title in 2006 and 2007 and possibly in 2005, though not likely with Texas and USC so dominant.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:21 am to LSUtiger89
The amount of time since the last championship was won is a factor in this I believe. There were only 3 season in between Saban’s championship and Miles’. There were 11 seasons in between Miles’ and Orgeron’s championships.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:28 am to TH03
quote:
Saban at LSU wins a title in 2006 and 2007 and possibly in 2005, though not likely with Texas and USC so dominant.
Fisher is still the OC in 2006 under Saban. Fisher's play calling against Auburn was the reason for that loss.
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:30 am to LSUtiger89
Here's why it's not a dumb comparison:
In 2005 the program was still on the rise. Sure it lost the bowl on a dumb play but it was loaded with elite talent. Roughly 14 of the O and D starters were Saban recruits plus Miles rode the coattails of the brand that had been established.
In 2016 when the change was made, the program was not on the rise. It was stale and stagnant. In 2019, roughly 17 starters were O recruits. Orgeron retooled and restored our football success.
Miles achievements can't be ignored but Orgeron had a few more challenges to overcome
In 2005 the program was still on the rise. Sure it lost the bowl on a dumb play but it was loaded with elite talent. Roughly 14 of the O and D starters were Saban recruits plus Miles rode the coattails of the brand that had been established.
In 2016 when the change was made, the program was not on the rise. It was stale and stagnant. In 2019, roughly 17 starters were O recruits. Orgeron retooled and restored our football success.
Miles achievements can't be ignored but Orgeron had a few more challenges to overcome
Posted on 1/16/20 at 10:30 am to LSUJCC
quote:
The amount of time since the last championship was won is a factor in this I believe. There were only 3 season in between Saban’s championship and Miles’. There were 11 seasons in between Miles’ and Orgeron’s championships.
lsu had title contending roster and miles wasnt contending for title and was ultimately fired for not winning at an elite level while having elite talent.
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