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re: Pilots of the OT: How confident will you be in the MAX when it’s cleared?
Posted on 11/21/19 at 10:09 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 11/21/19 at 10:09 pm to Draconian Sanctions
My life insurance doubles if the plane crashes. Then I’m sure my wife will sue. It all works out
0
Posted on 11/21/19 at 10:09 pm to Draconian Sanctions
I think the American flying public can be very dramatic. The MAX will make a full recovery and be in the skies for years to come. I guess we just forgot about the DC-10 eh?
America has the best pilots, controllers, and maintainers in the world.
America has the best pilots, controllers, and maintainers in the world.
Posted on 11/21/19 at 10:19 pm to slacker130
quote:
That was United.
It was actually on a Republic flight, I believe. Regional airline operating that flight as United.
Posted on 11/21/19 at 10:30 pm to The Boat
quote:
Just fly Delta and you don’t have to worry about the MAX.
Just old md80s held together by duct tape
Posted on 11/22/19 at 2:02 am to Cold Drink
quote:
This.
I’m going to avoid the Max for the foreseeable future. And to be honest I’d be more concerned about it acting up 2 years from now once everyone starts to get complacent.
But LOL at anyone saying the Max is safe when reality proves you wrong.
Please give me your background in structural aviation, I'll wait.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 2:11 am to Tiger Prawn
Southwest pioneered the business model which Spirit utilizes. South west has been for poors since the beginning.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 2:40 am to jcaz
quote:
America has the best pilots, controllers, and maintainers in the world
As a controller I strongly agree with you!
Posted on 11/22/19 at 5:53 am to Lima Whiskey
The DC 10 had a bad safety record to start then became safe. If flying on a MAX gets Braxtyne to the Houston travel ball east division world series quickly and saves 100 bucks.... people will fly it.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 5:59 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
737 800.
What about the 737-800s that are flying now?
Posted on 11/22/19 at 6:06 am to BHM
quote:
The failure was relying on only one input sensor and not training pilots. Get off of the outdated flawed design.
While I am not an engineer I wonder if they could have raised the plane even more (landing gear). The max is already taller than the regular 800 and the engine placement is what basically led to the plane pitching to high on take off......
Also to the Captain's and First Officers of the OT would an alarm (like something similar the stall warning) that the plane was pitching to high have been a better option than the plane trying to correct itself?
This post was edited on 11/22/19 at 6:11 am
Posted on 11/22/19 at 6:20 am to dupergreenie
The original 737 design called for a very low aircraft. This facilitated loading of passengers at airports without jetbridges and allowed easier load g of luggage and catering items.
The short landing gear can't be lengthened any further without major redesign. Redesign can also mean long certification delays and advanced crew training which costs airlines a lot of money.
Stall alarms are already part of the flight software. Recertification rules dictate what "changes" can be made. Boeing was attempting to eliminate any additional pilot training requirements.
Boeing turned what should have been a relatively simple change into a fiasco. Simply adding multiple input sensors, a slightly updated manual and requiring pilots to spend a few minutes in a simulator was all that was needed.
The short landing gear can't be lengthened any further without major redesign. Redesign can also mean long certification delays and advanced crew training which costs airlines a lot of money.
Stall alarms are already part of the flight software. Recertification rules dictate what "changes" can be made. Boeing was attempting to eliminate any additional pilot training requirements.
Boeing turned what should have been a relatively simple change into a fiasco. Simply adding multiple input sensors, a slightly updated manual and requiring pilots to spend a few minutes in a simulator was all that was needed.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 6:23 am to BuckeyeATC87
quote:
As a controller I strongly agree with you!
I listen to a lot of ATC recordings and screw that job! Don't know how you all can do it everyday.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 6:30 am to BHM
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/22/19 at 6:58 am
Posted on 11/22/19 at 8:08 am to Draconian Sanctions
I am only a PPL, but the group of guys I flew with all went on to commercial flying. I have one buddy who works at Boeing (not on the 737 program) and another who works for AA.
The MAX got a larger engine, but unlike the A320neo, the MAX did not have the clearance under the wing so that had to engineer it higher on the wing. When the plane was in a high thrust sequence (take off) it would increase the attitude of the aircraft. Boeing designed the MCAS system to prevent the aircraft from entering a stall.
One note is that the MCAS does not just drop trim the horizontal stabilizer at once. It only moves .27' per second to a max of 2.5' over 10 seconds. Then, if the system still believes it is at an extreme AoA, it will repeat the process.
Boeing did not share MCAS software in their training program, because they wanted it to be "plug and play" from older models. This was their large selling point. The plane flew differently because of the increased weight, altered CoG, etc. It was not plug and play.
TL;DR
Ultimately, I will fly the MAX again. Boeing failed to provide adequate training on MCAS, and the MCAS did not have appropriate redundancy if sensors were incorrect. Additionally, the MCAS was too aggressive, without an obvious and immediate bypass.
The MAX got a larger engine, but unlike the A320neo, the MAX did not have the clearance under the wing so that had to engineer it higher on the wing. When the plane was in a high thrust sequence (take off) it would increase the attitude of the aircraft. Boeing designed the MCAS system to prevent the aircraft from entering a stall.
One note is that the MCAS does not just drop trim the horizontal stabilizer at once. It only moves .27' per second to a max of 2.5' over 10 seconds. Then, if the system still believes it is at an extreme AoA, it will repeat the process.
Boeing did not share MCAS software in their training program, because they wanted it to be "plug and play" from older models. This was their large selling point. The plane flew differently because of the increased weight, altered CoG, etc. It was not plug and play.
TL;DR
Ultimately, I will fly the MAX again. Boeing failed to provide adequate training on MCAS, and the MCAS did not have appropriate redundancy if sensors were incorrect. Additionally, the MCAS was too aggressive, without an obvious and immediate bypass.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 8:28 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
You still have a fundamentally, aerodynamically, flawed airplane.
What a moron, the reason the planes crashed was MCAS, in order to keep the 737 type rating. Without MCAS airlines would have to have separate pilot training for the MAX. Take MCAS away and it's a perfectly fine plane.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 9:18 am to WestlakeTiger
quote:Why would I provide something I don’t have and never implied I did?
Please give me your background in structural aviation, I'll wait.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 9:29 am to Tiger Prawn
quote:
Because the United crew beats you up and drags you off the plane before take off?
Fify
Posted on 11/22/19 at 12:11 pm to Cold Drink
quote:
Why would I provide something I don’t have and never implied I did?
Then quit talking out of your arse. You don't know shite.
Posted on 11/22/19 at 12:19 pm to WestlakeTiger
quote:what did I say that is incorrect? For seemingly knowing a lot you’re not adding much to the discussion
Then quit talking out of your arse. You don't know shite.
Posted on 11/23/19 at 10:03 pm to BuckeyeATC87
quote:
As a controller I strongly agree with you!
I’m a student pilot approaching checkride. Don’t know how you folks do it!
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