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re: VIDEO: Black cop shoots a 16 year old white kid in the back of the head because he ran
Posted on 10/25/19 at 12:30 pm to ZappBrannigan
Posted on 10/25/19 at 12:30 pm to ZappBrannigan
The cop was indeed cleared, that did happen. So there is that. The main thing Im looking at is the momentum the kid had going forward and what seems like absolute intent to keep running forward, sprinting to the extent he was able, and what looked like no plan to break momentum and turn around....and of course he didnt bc he didn't have a weapon. But from the cops' perspective, I dont see anything that could be mistaken for an imminent effort to turn and put himself in a position to even be able to address either cop for a shot.
Then of course the pants....it couldn't have been hard to miss the fact that they were steadily falling down. Those cops surely arent unaware of how saggy pants "act" and also considering kid had JUST hit the ground thus having to adjust to be able to run. Plus, if you'll notice how long it was between the moment the shooter stopped at the fence and the moment of the shot, it was only a second or so.
Im having a hard time seeing it otherwise, to the extent that there was imminent threat to either cop.
Then of course the pants....it couldn't have been hard to miss the fact that they were steadily falling down. Those cops surely arent unaware of how saggy pants "act" and also considering kid had JUST hit the ground thus having to adjust to be able to run. Plus, if you'll notice how long it was between the moment the shooter stopped at the fence and the moment of the shot, it was only a second or so.
Im having a hard time seeing it otherwise, to the extent that there was imminent threat to either cop.
1
Posted on 10/25/19 at 1:31 pm to Roaad
quote:
VIDEO: Black cop shoots a 16 year old white kid in the back of the head because he ran
It doesn't matter what color you are - the same rule applies.
Comply and don't die.
I have no problem with the officers actions.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 1:41 pm to davyjones
Again, a presumed armed suspect makes a grabbing motion at his waist area.
Then you also got hypothetical alternatives like this presumed armed suspect managing to get a hostage or hole up in a corner like a spider after contact is broken.
99% of people just roll down the window and take the warning or the ticket or even the arrest. And nothing else happens but their day in court. Then there's the people like this kid that escalate the situation.
Then you also got hypothetical alternatives like this presumed armed suspect managing to get a hostage or hole up in a corner like a spider after contact is broken.
99% of people just roll down the window and take the warning or the ticket or even the arrest. And nothing else happens but their day in court. Then there's the people like this kid that escalate the situation.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 1:55 pm to ZappBrannigan
Sure, I get ya about the gun part. But it's not necessarily presumed insomuch as whether he had a gun or not it was assumed he had one. Known to carry a gun and presumed to carry a gun are two different things. If there's a case that's a good example of why such a presumption is bad policy it's this one.
After watching the video a couple more times it's very clear that the kid was looking forward to where he was trying to run at the time of the shot.
Again, Im just not believing the cop when he says he was in fear for his life. And the damn comment about good shot....Im not hearing any officers shaken up about essentially seeing their life flash before their eyes and about just having shot a 16 year old kid in the back of the head.
Alright, this is the worn out cliche question, but I guess I'll throw it out there: if it were your son, would you be convinced it was justified in that the cop had obvious reason to be in imminent fear for his life? No question or concern?
After watching the video a couple more times it's very clear that the kid was looking forward to where he was trying to run at the time of the shot.
Again, Im just not believing the cop when he says he was in fear for his life. And the damn comment about good shot....Im not hearing any officers shaken up about essentially seeing their life flash before their eyes and about just having shot a 16 year old kid in the back of the head.
Alright, this is the worn out cliche question, but I guess I'll throw it out there: if it were your son, would you be convinced it was justified in that the cop had obvious reason to be in imminent fear for his life? No question or concern?
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:04 pm to davyjones
If it was my son he wouldn't have run.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:12 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:
It doesn't matter what color you are - the same rule applies.
Comply and don't die.
Good Lord. This line of acceptance is evolving just as fast as kids with dicks wanting us to comply with calling them chicks.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:18 pm to davyjones
Now if it was my nephew. And at age 16 he was still doing willful defiance to everyone that wasn't his uncle. Then yeah he earned it if he made a reaching motion after running from the cops after disobeying lawful commands. If he ran and attempted to surrender, then still got shot. Maybe then we can start questioning.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:18 pm to ZappBrannigan
C'mon now. It's not a pleasant thought. But let me set it up in a potentially realistic way:
I don't know your age or your son's, but let's say it would be his 21st birthday and he's understandably celebrating at a college hangout, not a tame one, more like a club scene. Overindulges a tad and comes into contact with police for relatively innocent enough reason. Completely out of character he gets belligerent and they begin to go hands on. He freaks out and runs. To that fence. Same scene as in video from there.
You already know my view on the whole thing. Im sure this kid was a jackoff and at least at the time making mom's (and dad's, maybe) life unfairly miserable. It's still sad to me to see him get shot in the head but that's, again, bc I believe it wasnt justified. Now, if it were my son in the video. Im not going to even say.
But....are you able to set that scenario above up in your mind? It's not rhetorical or intended to be a trap of any sort. Leave it be if you want.
I don't know your age or your son's, but let's say it would be his 21st birthday and he's understandably celebrating at a college hangout, not a tame one, more like a club scene. Overindulges a tad and comes into contact with police for relatively innocent enough reason. Completely out of character he gets belligerent and they begin to go hands on. He freaks out and runs. To that fence. Same scene as in video from there.
You already know my view on the whole thing. Im sure this kid was a jackoff and at least at the time making mom's (and dad's, maybe) life unfairly miserable. It's still sad to me to see him get shot in the head but that's, again, bc I believe it wasnt justified. Now, if it were my son in the video. Im not going to even say.
But....are you able to set that scenario above up in your mind? It's not rhetorical or intended to be a trap of any sort. Leave it be if you want.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:19 pm to Kafka
quote:
We march at high noon
It's raining
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:20 pm to Sao
Are you one of them idiots that think providing license and registration is fascism?
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:24 pm to ZappBrannigan
Nephew example's good enough. I dunno. Im probably jaded in ways you may not be because Ive dealt with a lot of shitty criminal defendant/clients, and Ive also dealt with some shitty cops and in many situations it's not even a question that cops will be untruthful more often than most think. And of course there are more fine and honest ones in number, but Ive had my experiences.
For instance, you're exactly correct about the "known to carry a gun" factor. But for me, Id have to delve into that claim much, much deeper. Seeking the specific details of that claimed justification factor to better determine the credibility.
ETA....Ive been on the other team as well, the white hats. Just for reference. Been on both sides.
For instance, you're exactly correct about the "known to carry a gun" factor. But for me, Id have to delve into that claim much, much deeper. Seeking the specific details of that claimed justification factor to better determine the credibility.
ETA....Ive been on the other team as well, the white hats. Just for reference. Been on both sides.
This post was edited on 10/25/19 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:32 pm to davyjones
Are you not raising your kids right?
You've just described a dumbass being drunk and disorderly committing an assault and fleeing.
Escalation.
Look I get you're trying tonurture empathy. And that's cool. But it doesn't have a place in legal arguments. We're a nation of laws not feelings. And part of that standard is being able to use a little reason. Was the cop or someone around him under threat. No. Was he or someone else under a perceived threat from that daycare camera view? Easily.
ETA: and to clarify by an actual way to run a hypothetical. If a civilian chased out a robber. And a camera caught this positioning, I would side with the civilian too.
You've just described a dumbass being drunk and disorderly committing an assault and fleeing.
Escalation.
Look I get you're trying tonurture empathy. And that's cool. But it doesn't have a place in legal arguments. We're a nation of laws not feelings. And part of that standard is being able to use a little reason. Was the cop or someone around him under threat. No. Was he or someone else under a perceived threat from that daycare camera view? Easily.
ETA: and to clarify by an actual way to run a hypothetical. If a civilian chased out a robber. And a camera caught this positioning, I would side with the civilian too.
This post was edited on 10/25/19 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:41 pm to ZappBrannigan
My man, all I was doing was trying to throw a different angle out there. Of course I raise my kids right. It was just an experiment, no harm no foul.
And I don't see this as a legal argument anyway. It's the facts and observations occurring from moment of jumping gate and the next 8 or so seconds after that.
I guess we've probably fleshed it out as much as we could. Reasonable minds can disagree. All good.
ETA....and just friendly advice: do not chase a robber out of anywhere and shoot them as they're running in the direction opposite of you. That will not be assessed in the same way the same situation with a cop would. Just generally speaking....there are a few facts that may create an exception to that....
And I don't see this as a legal argument anyway. It's the facts and observations occurring from moment of jumping gate and the next 8 or so seconds after that.
I guess we've probably fleshed it out as much as we could. Reasonable minds can disagree. All good.
ETA....and just friendly advice: do not chase a robber out of anywhere and shoot them as they're running in the direction opposite of you. That will not be assessed in the same way the same situation with a cop would. Just generally speaking....there are a few facts that may create an exception to that....
This post was edited on 10/25/19 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:50 pm to davyjones
Like catching on camera a reaching motion that is not completely in view of the civilian.
Again the purpose here is consistency of the evidence. Both the officer and and the civilian have a reasonable position of being under threat.
Again the purpose here is consistency of the evidence. Both the officer and and the civilian have a reasonable position of being under threat.
This post was edited on 10/25/19 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 10/25/19 at 3:01 pm to ZappBrannigan
The difference between the civilian and the officer is that the officer is still obligated to pursue and apprehend the suspect. The civilian, while I guess has the right to perform a citizen's arrest, can only repel an immediate threat of death or great bodily harm and once the threat subsides must disengage from any further lethal force. Failure to do so puts the then pursuing civilian at risk for charges of their own.
An exception to that would be defense of others, i.e. if the initial civilian observed the perp move to another victim and placed that person in imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. You could then go to the other civilian's defense and use the same exact level of force that the victim would themselves be able to use against the perp.
An exception to that would be defense of others, i.e. if the initial civilian observed the perp move to another victim and placed that person in imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. You could then go to the other civilian's defense and use the same exact level of force that the victim would themselves be able to use against the perp.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 3:07 pm to Roaad
Where are all the "Reverends"???
Posted on 10/25/19 at 3:18 pm to Roaad
White, black, green, purple. All circumstances considered.
If you are a LEO, you drop that perp like a hot biscuit.
If you are a LEO, you drop that perp like a hot biscuit.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 4:09 pm to davyjones
quote:
For instance, you're exactly correct about the "known to carry a gun" factor. But for me, Id have to delve into that claim much, much deeper. Seeking the specific details of that claimed justification factor to better determine the credibility.
Not only that but before he took off running he had his hands up exposing his waist/belt area.
No gun and they knew it.
Those cops were not afraid for their lives. The cop that shot him had no chance of getting over that fence so took him down with his gun. The other cop kicking the corpse before putting the cuffs on was pretty obvious in his pleasure with the whole event.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 4:18 pm to BuckyCheese
And in looking again closely at the moment of the shot the kid was then looking forward, away from the cops, in the direction in which he was running. Then the shot.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 4:21 pm to BuckyCheese
It's so damned interesting how there are two so vastly differing perceptions and opinions of the events.
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