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I know that hiring based on IQ tests are illegal (or I'm tarded), but what about SAT's?
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:20 pm
can a company hire based purely on SAT? Say some kid scores a 750+ on math, showing that he or she(LOL) is capable of relatively complex mathematical work.
Wouldn't it make a TON of sense for an engineering or banking firm to offer these 18 year olds a job paying ~$35k/yr to start? That gives the employer fairly cheap (but competent) labor, and gives the young adult a chance to bypass college, come out on top ~$200k between 18-21 (+$140k in salary + not paying ~$50k+ in tuition).
I'm saying this as someone who will soon be a licensed electrical engineer. My 4 years of college provided me a diverse (the good kind) education. If my engineering field (MEP in commercial/education/hospital) totally collapsed and became worthless, I could easily transfer over to programming or electronics. But I'm not going to lie: I've been working in the MEP field for a little over 3 years, and I think that, if I got into this straight out of high school, it would only taken me ~4 years to be at the same competency level. Problem is, to become a professional engineer, one has to complete a 4 year bachelors degree.
I know WHY so many barriers to entry exist (fellow engineers create them), but they shouldn't. I'm diverging a bit from the thread's topic, but if someone can pass certification tests without going to college, then why should they have to go to college? If that's an issue, then maybe the certifications are too easy. I haven't taken my professional engineering exam yet, but the FE (fundamentals of engineering, a significant certification that many engineers are content with) was a joke.
What I'm getting at is: can companies bypass the IQ illegality and focus on the SAT? If so, why don't they? And finally, and most importantly, should we get away from college being a necessity to get certifications?
Wouldn't it make a TON of sense for an engineering or banking firm to offer these 18 year olds a job paying ~$35k/yr to start? That gives the employer fairly cheap (but competent) labor, and gives the young adult a chance to bypass college, come out on top ~$200k between 18-21 (+$140k in salary + not paying ~$50k+ in tuition).
I'm saying this as someone who will soon be a licensed electrical engineer. My 4 years of college provided me a diverse (the good kind) education. If my engineering field (MEP in commercial/education/hospital) totally collapsed and became worthless, I could easily transfer over to programming or electronics. But I'm not going to lie: I've been working in the MEP field for a little over 3 years, and I think that, if I got into this straight out of high school, it would only taken me ~4 years to be at the same competency level. Problem is, to become a professional engineer, one has to complete a 4 year bachelors degree.
I know WHY so many barriers to entry exist (fellow engineers create them), but they shouldn't. I'm diverging a bit from the thread's topic, but if someone can pass certification tests without going to college, then why should they have to go to college? If that's an issue, then maybe the certifications are too easy. I haven't taken my professional engineering exam yet, but the FE (fundamentals of engineering, a significant certification that many engineers are content with) was a joke.
What I'm getting at is: can companies bypass the IQ illegality and focus on the SAT? If so, why don't they? And finally, and most importantly, should we get away from college being a necessity to get certifications?
This post was edited on 3/31/19 at 10:39 pm
16
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:21 pm to THRILLHO
Is IQ testing illegal?
NFL has wunderlick
NFL has wunderlick
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:29 pm to thelawnwranglers
Is IQ testing really illegal? Good luck on your PE exam.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:32 pm to thelawnwranglers
quote:
Is IQ testing illegal?
I think so:
LINK
quote:
The Supreme Court decided in 1971 that requiring job applicants to take IQ tests (or any test that can't be shown to measure skill related to the job) violated Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
quote:
NFL has wunderlick
Familiar with it, but not sure about the legality. Honestly, the laws are a bit beyond me, so I may not be fully accurate in the OP. But I feel that most of my point stands.
This post was edited on 3/31/19 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:32 pm to THRILLHO
The ASVAB is essentially an IQ test with some other things thrown in. Determines Armed Forces admission and what military specialties are open.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:33 pm to FourThinInches
I tend to doubt IQ testing is illegal.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:33 pm to THRILLHO
So it is actually the law that you have to hire dumber mother frickers?
Well that explains a lot.
Well that explains a lot.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:36 pm to OleWar
OK, I apologize if I was off on the legality of IQ tests.
I really don't think that it significantly changes the point of the OP:
-why don't companies make offers to competent high-schoolers? If it's because of barriers to entry that forces people to go to college, then shouldn't that be fixed? Why not eliminate the schooling requirements and make certifications more difficult
I really don't think that it significantly changes the point of the OP:
-why don't companies make offers to competent high-schoolers? If it's because of barriers to entry that forces people to go to college, then shouldn't that be fixed? Why not eliminate the schooling requirements and make certifications more difficult
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:41 pm to THRILLHO
I see what you’re getting at. My guess would be because there’s an over abundance of college graduates (thank politicians and bloated universities for that). So why would a company spend its time and money taking a risk by preparing people for a job when it can just get someone who has at a minimum proven some ability to succeed?
Posted on 3/31/19 at 10:47 pm to SlapahoeTribe
quote:
My guess would be because there’s an over abundance of college graduates (thank politicians and bloated universities for that). So why would a company spend its time and money taking a risk by preparing people for a job when it can just get someone who has at a minimum proven some ability to succeed?
I get it, but in my first year of work, my employer could have gotten ~80% of my production for ~50% of the cost.
As for the risk of losing someone that you trained: that is still the case for all college graduates. Colleges give students a wide breadth of information, but no matter the field, recent grads are going to be pretty clueless in the grand scheme of things.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 11:05 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
but if someone can pass certification tests without going to college, then why should they have to go to college?
I've wondered this exact same thing about taking the BAR exam. If you know the subject matter, why the frick does it matter if you learned it in a college setting or not?
I'm an employer (not a lot, just 3 people) and I'm not sure of the legalities of IQ tests for applicants. However, I'd be 100% in favor of it, along w/ a test on conscientiousness.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 11:35 pm to stuntman
In the old days Eastern Block Countries tested students in different subjects if they qualified they would study that subject exclusively.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 11:37 pm to Sweet daddy
1500 dv's 
This post was edited on 3/31/19 at 11:38 pm
Posted on 3/31/19 at 11:42 pm to Sweet daddy
quote:
In the old days Eastern Block Countries tested students in different subjects if they qualified they would study that subject exclusively.
I don't support that at all. Encourage the students to go into what they're (theoretically) great at, but don't shoehorn them. I did very well in my programming courses, but absolutely hated doing it.
Posted on 3/31/19 at 11:53 pm to THRILLHO
I'm an engineer who is evolved in hiring engineers for my company. The answer for us is we could hire the right person without an engineering degree but they are very hard to find. Our work is very technical and if we limit our search to engineering grads with high GPAs, we have a high success rate. Even some of the engineers we hire (probably 15-20%) can't meet our expectations.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 1:19 am to THRILLHO
The military actually does this
Posted on 4/1/19 at 1:20 am to eelsuee
quote:
Even some of the engineers we hire (probably 15-20%) can't meet our expectations.
They end up in government where a few technicians pull their weight
Posted on 4/1/19 at 1:22 am to SlapahoeTribe
quote:
taking a risk by preparing people for a job when it can just get someone who has at a minimum proven some ability to succeed?
I think some of it is employers know people that drag debt need the job...and will act accordingly
Posted on 4/1/19 at 1:31 am to THRILLHO
quote:
I know WHY so many barriers to entry exist (fellow engineers create them), but they shouldn't. I'm diverging a bit from the thread's topic, but if someone can pass certification tests without going to college, then why should they have to go to college?
There was time when a person could take the PE exam, the CPA exam, and even the Bar Exam without having a degree or ever attending college. People would "clerk" for lawyers until they were ready for the Bar. There were what would be called apprenticeships in many professions like accounting and engineering. But as you posted over time professions added more and more barriers to entry, and by the mid 1870s most professional licensing started requiring a college degree and other specific education requirements.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 3:02 am to THRILLHO
Bro you are confused you need to find a new line of work like waiting tables for a couple of years.
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