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Started By
Message
A Down-And-Dirty Guide to QB Progressions (Remedial Level)
Posted on 3/18/19 at 2:21 am
Posted on 3/18/19 at 2:21 am
A Down-And-Dirty Guide to QB Progressions Yes, I know 99.9% of TD readers already know this, but there are 1 or 2 on this site who need help (I'm here to help).
This is an old-school approach to progressions. i.e. look at all receivers before firing the ball. It is also old-school for a QB to look for a wide-open WR - rather than throwing to a much tighter target as soon as possible.
This topic first came up when announcer Gary Danielson remarked that Tua was choosing his target before the snap based on man or zone - and was not going through progressions at all on many pass plays. He fired to his pre-selected target regardless of how well covered he might be. "Tua is fearless", Danielson remarked.
Ohio State OC Kevin Wilson went one step further in his hurry-up offense. He favored a ball snap in as short a time as possible between the play call and the snap - 2 seconds or slightly less (after the linemen were set). And without any regard to trying to read the defensive secondary. "Let them react to our alignments - not us to theirs".
LINK
quote:
The quarterback will look at each of his targets in this drill before deciding which one is the best choice. He will make the pass to the appropriate player.
This is an old-school approach to progressions. i.e. look at all receivers before firing the ball. It is also old-school for a QB to look for a wide-open WR - rather than throwing to a much tighter target as soon as possible.
This topic first came up when announcer Gary Danielson remarked that Tua was choosing his target before the snap based on man or zone - and was not going through progressions at all on many pass plays. He fired to his pre-selected target regardless of how well covered he might be. "Tua is fearless", Danielson remarked.
Ohio State OC Kevin Wilson went one step further in his hurry-up offense. He favored a ball snap in as short a time as possible between the play call and the snap - 2 seconds or slightly less (after the linemen were set). And without any regard to trying to read the defensive secondary. "Let them react to our alignments - not us to theirs".
LINK
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 2:23 am
4
Posted on 3/18/19 at 7:11 am to Buckeye Jeaux
I try to avoid taking QB advice from someone who thinks Burrow was better than Haskins.
Posted on 3/18/19 at 7:18 am to Buckeye Jeaux
Studying film is crucial as well. I've never made a good decision in my life, so I'd make a terrible QB.
Posted on 3/18/19 at 7:20 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Ohio State OC Kevin Wilson went one step further in his hurry-up offense. He favored a ball snap in as short a time as possible between the play call and the snap - 2 seconds or slightly less (after the linemen were set). And without any regard to trying to read the defensive secondary. "Let them react to our alignments - not us to theirs".
This in and of itself doesn't have anything to do with progressions.
Posted on 3/18/19 at 7:39 am to KosmoCramer
quote:Exactly. It has to do with eliminating progressions entirely - in certain hurry up situations - al la Kevin Wilson Co-OC for Haskins and OC for Sam Bradford at Oklahoma.
This in and of itself doesn't have anything to do with progressions.
In other words, there are numerous ways to run (or not run) QB passing progressions
Posted on 3/18/19 at 7:53 am to Buckeye Jeaux
Traditional QB progression teaching is borderline archaic in today's game. Everything is about coverage reads and tagging certain concepts to players/fronts/coverages.
If you teach old-schools progressions today you're gonna get destroyed by a good DC.
If you teach old-schools progressions today you're gonna get destroyed by a good DC.
Posted on 3/18/19 at 7:58 am to FootballNostradamus
This thread is confusing. I can't tell if OP is saying a guy like Haskins is well-schooled or instead set up for failure since he didn't read defenses and Wilson took care of the heavy-lifting with tempo and scheme.
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 8:00 am
Posted on 3/18/19 at 8:03 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:The no-look is something Wilson has been pushing in the last couple seasons (in hurry-up) - but hasn't gotten to use as much as he would like. And the"quick-look" (at man vs zone) is something Tua was killing with until Clemson figured it out. (by DBs having eyes in the QB in both Zone and Man)
This thread is confusing. I can't tell if OP is saying a guy like Haskins is well-schooled or instead set up for failure since he didn't really read defenses and Wilson did the heavy-lifting with tempo and scheme.
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 8:08 am
Posted on 3/18/19 at 9:15 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
If you teach old-schools progressions today you're gonna get destroyed by a good DC.
Right. Long developing plays that expose weaker offensive lines and give a good defense time to destroy the play at the LOS.
Where have I seen this before?
Posted on 3/18/19 at 11:05 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Exactly. It has to do with eliminating progressions entirely - in certain hurry up situations - al la Kevin Wilson Co-OC for Haskins and OC for Sam Bradford at Oklahoma.
Not in the slightest.
It's talking about how Wilson didn't like "check with me" by looking to the sideline before you snap the ball. He just wanted to line up fast and force the D to adjust ti whatever formation and play was called quickly and create confusion.
This would then require the QB to make a quick pre snap read, and find the open player without the aid of changing the play based on defensive formation.
If you're gonna start a thread like this, you should provide better links to the quotes you're posting and understand the schemes better.
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:19 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:You got this much right - particularly the part about creating confusion.
It's talking about how Wilson didn't like "check with me" by looking to the sideline before you snap the ball. He just wanted to line up fast and force the D to adjust ti whatever formation and play was called quickly and create confusion.
quote:
This would then require the QB to make a quick pre snap read, and find the open player without the aid of changing the play based on defensive formation.
Depends on your definition of "quick read". Wilson's scheme is to get the play off as fast as possible without a penalty for motion on the line. How the D is aligned is a distant second to getting the snap before the D gets set.
quote:I understand the schemes just fine. If you want to challenge my post, it is up to you provide links that support your contrary view. The ball is in your court.
If you're gonna start a thread like this, you should provide better links to the quotes you're posting and understand the schemes better.
So far the only point you've made that differs is that the QB might take a gander at the D on the quick snap. Wow. breathtaking insight.. LOL
And, "require the QB to make a quick pre snap read". I don't recall Wilson ever saying a pre-snap is "required". In fact I recall the opposite... i.e. that the quick snap trumps all else - particularly any read. Maybe start with a link to where Wilson ever says the read is "required".
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:34 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
How the D is aligned is a distant second to getting the snap before the D gets set.
While the line get set and the WRs get spread, the QB is reading pre-snap. Your original post intimates that there are no presnap reads, and that's 100% false.
Wilson wants to run an offense that sets up plays for later in the game based on how teams adjust to formations and route trees in game. Hes of the school that you run a base set of plays, figure out the adjustments, and call different plays from the same formation/motion.
Again, this has nothing to do with reading a defense.
Wilson does design concepts that attempt to create easier reads by motions and routes that flood a particular area and put pressure on a defender to be in a no win situation, but this is the nature of most spread offenses in college football today.
There is nothing down and dirty about your post. The link you provided was a hack QB drill that middle school Dads make their players drill with. If that's your definition of remidial substance, then so be it. But it's more of a discussion about middle school QB play.
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:36 pm to KosmoCramer
And, "require the QB to make a quick pre snap read". I don't recall Wilson ever saying a pre-snap is "required". In fact I recall the opposite... i.e. that the quick snap trumps all else - particularly any read. Maybe start with a link to where Wilson ever says the pre-snap read is "required".
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:39 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
It is also old-school for a QB to look for a wide-open WR - rather than throwing to a much tighter target as soon as possible.
They asked Dan Marino how he chose his targets.
His response: "I just throw it to the open man."
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:40 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Maybe start with a link to where Wilson ever says the pre-snap read is "required".
quote:
Wilson’s offense often gives its quarterback two play calls every snap, one run and one pass, leaving it up to the quarterback to make the final decision at the line. Against Nebraska, Wilson estimated that more than two-dozen of those run-pass options had to be pass calls, because Nebraska was loading the box against an offense it did not have to fear.
LINK
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:44 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:This is not in reference to Wilson's extreme hurry-up offense, and you damn well know it.
Wilson’s offense often gives its quarterback two play calls every snap, one run and one pass, leaving it up to the quarterback to make the final decision at the line. Against Nebraska, Wilson estimated that more than two-dozen of those run-pass options had to be pass calls, because Nebraska was loading the box against an offense it did not have to fear.
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:45 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:Yes, indeed. Marino was about as old school as you could get.
They asked Dan Marino how he chose his targets.
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:45 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
He doesn't run hurry up all the time. And Ohio State hardly ran it with Wilson because Urban doesn't like it.
I dont even understand what your points because the posts are so convoluted.
I dont even understand what your points because the posts are so convoluted.
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:51 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:He didn't get to run it much at all at Ohio St. More likely because Day (and Haskins/Barrett) didn't like it, IMO. But he ran it at times at Indiana, and put up impressive numbers against superior talent.
He doesn't run hurry up all the time. And Ohio State hardly ran it with Wilson because Urban doesn't like it.
This post was edited on 3/18/19 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 3/18/19 at 12:53 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
Day is a Chip Kelly disciple, he wasn't the one standing in the way.
It was Urban. Same with the zone read.
It was Urban. Same with the zone read.
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