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Started By
Message
“The Civil War settled it. Secession is unconstitutional.”
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:04 pm
Isn’t that is a massive brainwashing? Why on earth can’t a state choose to leave the union peacefully?
I know this has been discussed here before, but never by me.
I don’t think any state should secede. But to say there’s no way out - how does that express the circumstance of a sovereign state or a free people?
I know this has been discussed here before, but never by me.
I don’t think any state should secede. But to say there’s no way out - how does that express the circumstance of a sovereign state or a free people?
This post was edited on 11/20/18 at 8:09 pm
24
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:08 pm to baybeefeetz
There wasn't supposed to be a way out of the Roman Empire either.
People who think anything is permanent just because it has been around longer than they have lived is literally shortsighted
People who think anything is permanent just because it has been around longer than they have lived is literally shortsighted
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:08 pm to baybeefeetz
The winners have always made the rules
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:09 pm to Roger Klarvin
A rule is one thing. A mass delusion is another.
This post was edited on 11/20/18 at 8:10 pm
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:09 pm to baybeefeetz
Because if a state like California were to secede, a massive chunk of the national economy would secede with it. We are all interdependent on one another. Why would the federal government allow something to happen that would be so against its interests? One state leaving effects the whole of us. Plus....federalism triumphed in the Civil War. That's why.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:10 pm to RollTide1987
So what? Maybe banning guns would help the economy. We wouldn’t do that for such a reason. Nationalizing the steel industry might, too. Um...
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:10 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
to say there’s no way out - how does that express the circumstance of a sovereign state or a free people?
The USA >>>> your state
That's how.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:11 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
on earth can’t a state choose to leave the union peacefully
Because the union has forcefully prevented it in the past... so proceed with caution.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:11 pm to TbirdSpur2010
So then what rights do the states have as against the fed gov? I want to understand what principle makes secession not okay but protects some other basic right.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:12 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
So what? Maybe banning guns would help the economy. We wouldn’t do that for such a reason. Nationalizing the steel industry might, too. Um...
#Strawman.
I'm simply telling you why a state can't leave peacefully. If one goes, multiple states will go with it. A trickle becomes a flood and the whole foundation falls apart as a result. Such an outcome would inevitably lead to war.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:12 pm to baybeefeetz
Secession from the British Empire was illegal too.
Secession is okay as long as you win.
Secession is okay as long as you win.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:13 pm to RollTide1987
You are talking about practical consequences. How does that make it a binding rule? Is it unconstitutional?
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:13 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
what rights do the states have as against the fed gov?
Only those that do not go against what the federal government deems are for the good of the collective.
quote:
want to understand what principle makes secession not okay but protects some other basic right.
Apples to oranges. There's no basic right to secession.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:14 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
A mass delusion is another.
What are you talking about? At present it is a FACT that current legal precedent states a state cannot unilaterally decide to leave the union.
You may not like it, but to say it’s delusional to claim current law is, in fact, current is nonsensical.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:14 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Is it unconstitutional?
Texas v. White (1869) says yes.
This post was edited on 11/20/18 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:14 pm to Parmen
quote:
Secession from the British Empire was illegal too.
Secession is okay as long as you win.
Essentially.
You wanna rebel, you'd best not take an L.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:18 pm to baybeefeetz
The Civil War didn’t settle whether secession was illegal, only impractical from a then military standpoint.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:20 pm to baybeefeetz
Any state could secede tomorrow and the military couldn’t do anything about it. I know this because I learned all about posse comitatus in the caravan threads.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:20 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Is it unconstitutional?
Yes, current legal precedent established by the USSC in 1869 states that it is unconstitutional
LINK
Posted on 11/20/18 at 8:21 pm to LSURussian
quote:
The Civil War didn’t settle whether secession was illegal
Correct, Texas v. White did
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