Tired "beat Bama first" narrative to win in recruiting

I make this point because most of the Louisiana kids that chose Bama play games, and they use the compete for championships line as an excuse. Some kids just wanna get out of state, but dont act like there arent plenty of examples that Saban out flanks us with bag men (he was getting players from Louisiana while we were playing for championships).

We either need to find a way to cut the heads off the bag men, or beat him at his own game on the low.

Im looking at you Sam Petito (Amite kids), eye doctor/lawyer/whoever (Monroe area). Wish we had some OT ballers with connections that could flush these guys out mafia style on some unrelated Rico charges or some shite.

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Every team loses top in state recruits, It's not hard to understand some kids just want to get out. Even Kirby is struggling to lock up Georgia. However, talent has never been the issue. Miles frequently held top 5 classes. The problem is talent can only win you so many games, the rest comes down to coaching..

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Agreed completely.

I actually made all those point in my OP. Coaching is absolutely vital, and youre correct about talent not being the issue, except maybe QB and OL really. The point I was making is that people think we are losing instate recruits to Saban because we havent beat them in awhile.

True warriors and leaders dont just go to Bama cause LSU is on a losing streak; that isnt why instate kids go to Bama. Some just want out of state, but many of the others go looking for a handout. In other words, this myth that most or all of the kids we lose to Bama isnt because we have lost to them recently. A still relatively new Coach like Coach O, should be able to sell them on restoring order, and being the class/group/team that finally gets us over the hump and beats them.

Id say less than 5 percent of recruits we have lost to Bama picked them in a dead even race - the kicker simply being just because they have beat us 7 in a row. If that is indeed the only reason, those few are weak groupies looking for the path of least resistance.

Mostly, we need to cut off the heads of the bag men, or beat him at his own game.

For the most part I agree with you BillyBob

Couple of bullet points to add:
- did Saban have to beat AU/UF at LSU first to improve recruiting? No

- "fences" work both ways. By that I mean locking down a state means two things: 1) you've made a concisous decision to move resouces from one area (e.g. TX) to your state, and 2) by definition you may be passing up a better talent OOS just to do that (e.g. Hootie vs Adams)

- Yeah, head-2-head affects some recruits. Very few however. In the list of significance it's #4 or below. I mention this because in anything, including recruting strategy, you must objectively identify strengths/weaknesses to improve. I hear the word "excuses" tossed around all the time here. To say, if you are on LSU's staff, "well, we lost to Bama last year so we can't expect recruiting to improve this year" is indeed an excuse, a self-excuse. You don't do like Hillary and blame everything BUT being a horrible campaigner with a staff that assumed certain states would never go to Trump and then make excuses of why they did. You identify your weaknesses so you can fix it.

- What the eye doctor (named him here a long time ago LINK LINK) is different from your typical bagmen, like Amite (which is more likely just an "influencer"). I mention this because to combat each takes different tactics. Bateman is more of a "setup man" for Saban where if Saban wants an event (e.g. Awards Dinner) to meet with HS coaches in the area, he will help/partially organize and sponsor it. Eye Doctor's ties lie in the fact he is a huge sponsor of HS sports and well connected and can bridge Saban to the general community. Someone like the Barber directly talks to and influences recruits (and their guardians). I don't know about him directly, not an area I'm familiar with so I'm using him as an example. I've heard he even arranges for rides to camps (which is sketchy if he only does it for one school due to NCAA rules, IF they were ever applied).

The Eye Doctor is both easily combated but at the same time it's difficult to combat. All you do is exactly the same thing but better or more voluminous. An example is if Saban speaks at a Rotary Club meeting in W Monroe, you speak at one in Monroe, AND one in Shreveport. The principle is easy, the effectiveness might take time.

To combat someone like Amite bagmen, I'd say simply start "exit interviewing" recruits, and report his arse as a Bama "affiliate", hence Booster (NCAA definition of "booster" is insane). The idea of "we're not rats" or "it's more honorable to not report" is fricking bullshite. Saban set us up with the early FA agreements with Womack (tried with Hootie), Meyer reports people all the time (so does Mullen). It's a dirty business recruiting- so get dirty, treat it like a business, and use all the tools at your disposal.

- Saban beating us head-2-head in the trenches is the only area where we are consistently, repeatedly, and significantly losing the arms race. We've found replacements that do just fine in the grand scheme of things when we do lose someone (not counting the lack of plan B last year with Surtain)... except OL/DL. 4-5 positions that must function as a squad; losing one or two a every other year, replacing that loss with a "project", and over time it will have cumulative effect that is costing us multiple games. And not just Bama, I'd point to losses to AU, OM, and MSST too. For several years, MSST was more talented in the trenches (especially DL) than we were; we've caught up, but that's a good example.

Those coaches that aren't afraid to report on other programs may not have any dirt to have thrown back in their direction. Makes me wonder why some will and some won't report the shady activity of other programs. Especially if you're hanging by a thread to keep you dream job.

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I20goon

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Great post with really in-depth addition to discussion. I enjoyed reading it, and appreciate the intellectual response. I dont see anything you said that contradicts my OP, but my messages were lengthy - I agree with everything you said.

Incredible insight, and thoughtful reply.

Thanks man

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Penrod

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As for the truth, pioneers take the arrows and the settlers take the land. Hearing the hard truth for a lot of people for the first time is hard to swallow, but once enough people accept the truth, people who are on the fence tend to accept it easier - though a complicated truth is always rejected more frequently than a simple lie.

Thanks for the support brotha

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CletusJones

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I have a feeling in Sabans shadow staff, they use/threaten underlings/salt explayers/dirt on power players at other schools to feed them information from other schools. There are other tactics politicians use for their benefit - Saban is a worse coach than people give him credit for, and a better political strategist - a la Hugh Freeze who was beating him consistently, and then suddenly a scandal was afoot and his name was dragged through the mud, and thus fired.

Most programs dont report because every program has some shady practices though to varying degrees, and they are afraid of retribution. However, just like in politics, if you grease the right wheels, the machine keeps running regardless of safety issues/malpractices. Some people get pulled over and get a warning, others do not pass go/do not collect $200 just go straight to jail.

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Who is more well known to their prospective fans - Bama's 5th championship squad or UCF's undefeated team? 

Sure Bama fans love their championship team, but its just one of many and almost expected at this point. They will fade away and be known as just one of many championship squads. Its the path of least resistance for a lot of those players. Meanwhile, UCF likely had its first undefeated season ever - much more of an accomplishment, surprise, and those players are likely gods there and will be remembered forever. 

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I'm sorry but winning a championship is the highest possible level you can reach in college football. Going undefeated is nice but if you dont get the ultimate goal which is being a national champion, it is not as impressive. The old Miami Hurricane teams dont lose any fame because multiple teams were dominant in a period of time, just the opposite they are remembered as a dynasty.

Why would Brian Bateman's dad be a bagman for Bama, when Brian played golf for LSU?

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Why would Brian Bateman's dad be a bagman for Bama, when Brian played golf for LSU?

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Want to clarify: I specifically have stated Dr. Bateman isn't a bagman. More of a local sports supporter and community organizer/sponsor. He has more to do with local coaches and schools than with parents and recruits. Nothing he does is illegal (codified or NCAA).

But where Brian went to school (during Dinardo era) doesn't affect what he does. Saban, during his time at LSU, chose to use him as a tool and ally in the area. He still does.

No local group, or coach, is going to NOT want to have Saban speak, visit, or give autographs. On any subject.

I wanted to give a real life example and looked for it briefly (i.e. not too hard) but couldn't find it so I'm going to go off memory. I think it was in 2014 the the Monroe News Star had an article about Saban speaking on "leadership qualities" at a local Kiwanis Club (or Rotary? Chamber of Commerce?) at which local HS coaches were invited to attend for free, paid tickets for local businessmen. Dr. Bateman did some of the advertising and was one of the business that rented the venue; local restaurants catered it for free. But it was Bateman that arranged for Saban to be the speaker.

Just because his son went to LSU doesn't mean he would disavow his long time contact in Saban, or not do the same local sports/community support activities.

The sad thing is, he'd probably do the same for Orgeron (or Miles) but they aren't "in his network", i.e. they probably never ask. His connection is a personal one; Saban continues to nurture that connection. They both benefit.

ETA: in all, it's not that different than the network Burton Burns has in the NOLA area. The difference being Burns' network resulted from being from the area, Saban's network resulted from one he built, as an outsider, during his time at LSU. Both continue to use their networks from Tuscaloosa. Dr. Bateman is no different than one of Burns' friends in NOLA, just in Monroe.

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- I find it comical you left out his Miami days which just prove that when the playing field is even and he doesnt have a huge advantage in talent, his coaching is above average at best.

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Considering the number of college coaches that took HC jobs in the NFL and were not successful, this is a horrible argument against Saban.

This is good stuff all the way down BillyBobBlitzkrieg