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re: Correlation: Prayer out of schools to increase in mass shootings

Posted on 2/27/18 at 2:31 am to
Posted by MastrShake
SoCal
Member since Nov 2008
7281 posts
Posted on 2/27/18 at 2:31 am to
quote:

It won't be long until ... Christianity is forced into the shadows due to its teachings being viewed as dangerous to the worldview of the age.
good. perfect. thats certainly the goal of people like me. the world cannot be rid of this stone age superstition fast enough.

Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41784 posts
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:33 pm to
Hitchens was a fool who didn't understand the religion he liked to bash.

quote:

In order to be a Christian, you have to believe that for 98,000 years, our species suffered and died, most of its children dying in childbirth, most other people having a life expectancy of about 25 years, dying of their teeth. Famine, struggle, bitterness, war, suffering, misery, all of that for 98,000 years. Heaven watches this with a complete indifference. And then 2000 years ago, thinks "That's enough of that. It's time to intervene,"
I won't debate the timeline as it doesn't matter for his point. Whether it's 10,000 years or 100,000 years, his point is that there's a long time that "Heaven" (God) doesn't do a thing about suffering in the world.

First of all, he doesn't understand what the religion teaches. The Bible (and thus Christians as a whole) doesn't teach that the point of Jesus' sacrifice was to remove human suffering here on earth. In case Hitchens hadn't noticed, suffering continued long after Jesus' death on the cross. We suffer today. God, therefore, wasn't watching and waiting for there to be enough suffering to send Jesus to die. He was being patient with His chosen people (Israel) and waiting on them to repent and trust in the promised messiah that was revealed from the 3rd chapter in the book of Genesis. In His own timing, God finally sent Jesus to become incarnate and begin His mission. It wasn't a "enough is enough" sort of thing, as if God--on a whim--just decided to step in after being outraged one last time. The timing was planned before we were even created.

The salvation found in Jesus is a spiritual salvation, not a physical one. The Bible tells us to continue to expect to suffer, even as Jesus suffered, and that our hope should be in Heaven, not in our earthly lives. It's why the Christian prosperity preachers are so far off base.

Secondly, the Bible teaches that God is not indifferent to human suffering. He doesn't delight in the death of the wicked (much less His own people) nor does He desire the consequences of sin, which is death. Suffering exists because we are sinners and our natural state is selfishness which leads to the suffering of ourselves and of others. Even nature is at war against us because of our sin. It's because God loves His creation that He gave an escape from suffering through faith in Jesus Christ, who if we trust in His sacrifice, will wipe away all the tears and heal all of the wounds of His people in Heaven.

quote:

and the best way to do this would be by condemning someone to a human sacrifice
The issue is one of justice. It wasn't simply a "human sacrifice", but a cosmic moral debt that needed to be paid. The death penalty has existed since the beginning of humanity. This one just happened to take away sin.

quote:

somewhere in the less literate parts of the Middle East. Don't lets appear to the Chinese, for example, where people can read and study evidence and have a civilization. Let's go to the desert and have another revelation there."
In his haste to belittle Christianity and the Bible, he ignores the truth: the revelation about Jesus happened where people were reading and writing (how did he think the New Testament was created?) and where people did question the validity of the claims. The gospel accounts are full of examples of people not believing Jesus was God in spite of His miracles.

His statement also insinuates that God should have chosen the most advanced civilization(s) to reveal Himself to if He wanted to be seen as credible. This misses on a few points. First, it ignores the theme of the scriptures wherein God chose the lowest of the low to be His people and to receive Him. He created the nation of Israel out of pagan nations. He lifted up the poor and the humble into positions of authority (like David). Jesus embraced the slaves and the widows and condemned the rich men who had no need for God, or the learned pharisees that relied upon their own knowledge and understanding rather than the truth of God.

Secondly, the statement ignores God's requirement for salvation: faith. Hitchens was a man of empiricism and would not accept anything that could not be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (that's not really true, but for the sake of argument...) and therefore he had no place for "faith" in his life. It's why, in his world, if God existed, it would be reasonable to leave His existence beyond question, appearing to people who would think critically about Him and thoroughly record every aspect and detail about Him. There are two problems with this: God condescends to give us proofs but He doesn't have to prove to everyone (beyond a doubt) of His existence because by nature we already know He exists and those who reject God fight against Him with all of their power. Secondly, salvation comes by faith, not by sight. Some who saw didn't believe and most who believe never saw. The point was completely missed by Hitchens, to his own detriment. I shudder to think about what he has to endure right now.
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 12:52 pm
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