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Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:28 pm to Foch
quote:respectfully, your understanding of the reformation is significantly flawed. that's not really what luther did. he attacked specific errors in the church; simony, selling of indulgences, etc. and he was right to do so. this most certainly did not cause moral relativism.
As Luther tore down tradition and the Church as conduits of truth/sacraments the Protestant world was thrown into a state of moral relativism where different denominations had to either accommodate other denominations interpretation of truth or seek to eradicate “errors” in interpretation
the most likely overall culprit is the tofflerian third wave. that almost certainly would have happened, reformation or not.
quote:which seemingly undermines your previous point
Luther himself rejected many contemporary Protestants who interpreted, as he had, scripture without the aid of tradition and the divinely anointed Church
quote:where are you getting this? it's perplexing how you could be so mistaken
Luther’s legacy, when boiled down, is that truth is up to you, the individual instead of externally revealed through the scripture, tradition, and Church authority acting in harmony and concert.
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:31 pm to FooManChoo
quote:I (most likely) will from this point forward. I reserve the right to jump in again, but I hope I won't. When you wrestle with pigs you get muddy, so I absolutely appreciate your advice.
You're free to ignore the thread
I just think your denominational arguments bring nothing to the political table. In fact I think they degrade them - as religious beliefs do nothing to persuade others, except to convince them of total ignorance. Carry on Friend!
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:32 pm to TopJimmy
quote:i think you mistakenly assume i am giving you my opinion, which i'm not. i'm telling you what is biblical. do you think the bible is mistaken on the matter?
Are YOU the arbiter? Are YOU the prayer boss?
quote:actually it does and the bible is pretty clear on this
It doesn't matter, after it's all said and done
quote:something, something, james 4:3
My prayer didn't work
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:35 pm to bfniii
quote:I think your version of the Bible doesn't apply to me or any other thinking man. Period.
i think you mistakenly assume i am giving you my opinion, which i'm not. i'm telling you what is biblical. do you think the bible is mistaken on the matter?
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:42 pm to HaveMercy
quote:well, it's in the name. liberal churches are liberally attached to scriptural truth. iow, they do not cling to inerrancy as it is traditionally understood. "conservative" churches do, hence the term conservative.
What does liberalism or conservatism have to do with the Bible?
quote:liberal churches maintain that the bible is merely the product of men and not really "inspired" in the traditional sense. the scriptures reflect the experiences of the authors and are not meant to be taken historico-literally (geschichte, not historie). therefore, they advocate reader response hermeneutic, which is phenomenologically and semiotically problematic and leads to theological error. honestly, i am baffled at how highly educated people can be so misled. just goes to show that a bunch of abbreviations after your name doesn't mean you're spiritually mature/wise.
the Holy Bible is the word of God; take it or leave it
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:45 pm to TopJimmy
quote:what is wrong with you? why would you even bother to post that? seriously, why would you take the time and effort to move your fingers across the keyboard to type out that message - more than once i might add.
TopJimmy
please learn this word
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:46 pm to TopJimmy
quote:noted. thanks for your guidance. now walk away
I just think your denominational arguments bring nothing to the political table
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:47 pm to TopJimmy
quote:i don't have a "version" of the bible. which is probably your initial point of being mistaken
I think your version of the Bible doesn't apply to me or any other thinking man
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:48 pm to TopJimmy
I believe in one God the Father, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in Jesus Christ his only son who was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried. On the third day, according to the Scriptures, he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. He is seated at the right hand of God the Father where his kingdom will have no end. he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of the Saints, the Forgivness of sin, the Ressurection of the Body and life everlasting.
Forgive me if I didn't quote the Nicene Creed perfectly!!
This is what I BELIEVE. i don't care what anyone else believes, just leave my beliefs alone.
ETA - I just heard my Dad's voice saying - spoken like a true Episcopalian.
There's been a lot of theological debate in this thread, but I want to bring it back to my OP. Political leftists have hijacked my religion. It makes me mad and it makes me sad. Reading all your posts, I can honesty say that 20 years ago, the Episcopal tent could house most of you. But the political left has ruined that, the way they ruin most things.
I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of the Saints, the Forgivness of sin, the Ressurection of the Body and life everlasting.
Forgive me if I didn't quote the Nicene Creed perfectly!!
This is what I BELIEVE. i don't care what anyone else believes, just leave my beliefs alone.
ETA - I just heard my Dad's voice saying - spoken like a true Episcopalian.
There's been a lot of theological debate in this thread, but I want to bring it back to my OP. Political leftists have hijacked my religion. It makes me mad and it makes me sad. Reading all your posts, I can honesty say that 20 years ago, the Episcopal tent could house most of you. But the political left has ruined that, the way they ruin most things.
This post was edited on 2/8/18 at 12:05 am
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:50 pm to bfniii
quote:
liberal churches maintain that the bible is merely the product of men and not really "inspired" in the traditional sense. the scriptures reflect the experiences of the authors and are not meant to be taken historico-literally (geschichte, not historie). therefore, they advocate reader response hermeneutic, which is phenomenologically and semiotically problematic and leads to theological error. honestly, i am baffled at how highly educated people can be so misled. just goes to show that a bunch of abbreviations after your name doesn't mean you're spiritually mature/wise.
The Bible IS a product of man. Written by man, interpreted by man, passed down by man. Gospels excluded, gospels changed by Kings. You seem to be very educated in theology, yet woefully ignorant.
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:53 pm to HaveMercy
quote:
I believe in one God the Father, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in Jesus Christ his only son who was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontious Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried. On the third day, according to the Scriptures, he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. He is seated at the right hand of God the Father where he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of the Saints, the Forgivness of sin, the Ressurection of the Body and life everlasting.
I respect this 100%. Please don't mistake my arguments with other asshats to indicate otherwise.
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:55 pm to bfniii
quote:Nah. You walk away. This is Political board, not preacher board.
noted. thanks for your guidance. now walk away
Posted on 2/8/18 at 12:12 am to HaveMercy
The Muslim guys in the dormitory when I was at LSU told me that all of Christianity is Poly-theistic. Christians believe in three gods: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Can any Christian explain what a conversation between these three persons might be like? Do they talk to each other or communicate with each other? If so, how can they all be the same God?
They had some very good questions that I could not answer. Instead, I told them: "Shut up, man, what do you know, you take a shower with your damn swim suit on."
Can any Christian explain what a conversation between these three persons might be like? Do they talk to each other or communicate with each other? If so, how can they all be the same God?
They had some very good questions that I could not answer. Instead, I told them: "Shut up, man, what do you know, you take a shower with your damn swim suit on."
Posted on 2/8/18 at 12:22 am to Champagne
quote:
Christians believe in three gods: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I'm wrong, I am sure. I always read the trinity as the Father (God) the Son (Jesus) and the spirit being believers. I'm not religious at all I should go to bed. And I will. Gnight all.
Posted on 2/8/18 at 12:27 am to TopJimmy
quote:prove that it's not inspired
The Bible IS a product of man
quote:link?
gospels changed by Kings
quote:the only thing you have pointed to is your misunderstanding of scripture. do you have something more definitive to base this on?
You seem to be very educated in theology, yet woefully ignorant.
Posted on 2/8/18 at 12:28 am to TopJimmy
quote:thanks admin. not
You walk away. This is Political board, not preacher board
Posted on 2/8/18 at 12:29 am to Champagne
Your Muslim friend was dead wrong.
Let me see if I can simplify it. We are human beings. All people are beings but not all beings are people. For instance, you are one being and one person. A dog is one being and zero persons. God is one being and three persons (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit).
Let me see if I can simplify it. We are human beings. All people are beings but not all beings are people. For instance, you are one being and one person. A dog is one being and zero persons. God is one being and three persons (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit).
Posted on 2/8/18 at 12:31 am to Champagne
quote:typical misunderstanding of trinitarianism
Christians believe in three gods: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
scutum fidei
they are the same in form, different in function.
quote:they seem to in scripture.
Do they talk to each other or communicate with each other?
Posted on 2/8/18 at 12:32 am to Champagne
quote:
hey had some very good questions that I could not answer. Instead, I told them: "Shut up, man, what do you know, you take a shower with your damn swim suit on."
You certainly get style points for the shower comment (insert bow down emoji)
But The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are three parts of the same entity - its called The Holy Trinity - they aren't separate. Yes, it was hard for me to grasp as a 12 yo but I figured it out.
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