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re: Christians Can Learn tolerance from Muslim Migrants per German Finance Minister
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:57 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:57 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Why not? Sounds like you don't have an objective reason for it. I would think you would be only as "good" as needed to function in society without obtaining negative consequences.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, no pun intended, but aren't you only being as good as needed to obtain salvation?
If the Bible said you need to follow all these rules but there is no afterlife for anyone, you should just do it because God commands it.... Would that change your opinion?
I'm sure you will say no, but we both know a significant proportion of all religious people would say screw that
Which would mean people are motivated by selfish reasons. Which is somewhat hypocritical right
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:33 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:I'm not, no, and I don't think that's Biblical, either. I believe that you are saved by faith alone in Christ alone and not by your good works (Ephesians 2 spells this out for us).
I'm just playing devil's advocate, no pun intended, but aren't you only being as good as needed to obtain salvation?
quote:It might, but not for the reason you are talking about. It would essentially change the entire religion:
If the Bible said you need to follow all these rules but there is no afterlife for anyone, you should just do it because God commands it.... Would that change your opinion?
-God would not be just
-Therefore there would be no justice administered from God
-Therefore there would be no penalty for sin
-Therefore there would be no need for salvation from the penalty of sin (and no thankfulness for said salvation)
-Therefore there would be no need for salvation provided by Jesus (and faith in Him)
-Therefore there would be no need for Jesus' obedience to the law
-Therefore there would be no need for Jesus to be incarnated
-Therefore there would be no plan for the incarnation from eternity past
I could go on and on and on. Essentially if there is no punishment for sin (because there is no afterlife), the entire religion changes. Given that, I don't know how to answer your hypothetical. You might as well ask if I would believe the Bible if it described a different God with an entirely different set of conditions for the universe. One reason I believe the Bible is because of it's logical consistency within itself and also it's alignment with what we see in the world around us. These changes could drastically change all of that, making it almost impossible to believe without blind faith (which Christians do not have).
quote:People already do things like that for selfish reasons. This change won't change that fundamentally, but might increase the amount of people who say "screw that".
I'm sure you will say no, but we both know a significant proportion of all religious people would say screw that. Which would mean people are motivated by selfish reasons.
quote:Sure, but you have to completely change the religion to get to that point. The way it exists today provides for motivation to obey that is not selfish: gratitude. Gratitude doesn't exist in that hypothetical you provided.
Which is somewhat hypocritical right
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