re: So long climate change

It was a category 5 (major hurricane). Just not when it hit Florida, didnt' mean to imply it hit Fla as a 5, my bad.

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Caused by?

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ocean inundation

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First off olddawg, thanks for answering.
I assumed that someone advocating so strongly on a subject would have a sound foundation even on a poliboard.

Of course I want to listen to your answer! Sometimes the best class is a give and take dialogue between two adults. I suspect that you are a rational adult, and you might increase my knowledge. I haven't noticed you childishly calling names like trumpanzee, and I haven't called you an especially tarded libtard like I did for machine. One must address your opposition at the appropriate level.

Now for complete honesty. My questions had multiple purposes. You may increase my knowledge. I might increase your knowledge through this Socratic method. And fellow readers, with the exception of machine, might gain a greater understanding of the ramifications of action and inaction of the great CO2 debate. So your suspicion on my motives were justified.

This is what I take from your answers.
1, you acknowledge that climate change is natural and that natural causes are responsible for some of the rising temperatures. You also maintain that man is contributing some unknown portion of warming.
2) You recognized my gotcha question about what is the normal climate. And you once again admitted that climate change is normal but insist that man has influence.
3) You admit that the good or bad of climate change is in the eye of the beholder.
4) Honest admission of lack of knowledge. No shame there. What humanity knows is less than a grain of sand in the cosmos of what is knowable.

Here is my argument. The cost of replacing fossil fuels to reduce CO2 emissions is usually ignored or minimized in the debate. Example: The American farmer feeds 155 people worldwide. His farmhouse is powered by electricity mostly produced by cheaper fossil fuels. He plows, plants, fertilizes, weeds, harvests, and transports his crops with gasoline and diesel powered equipment. Diesel powered trucks deliver and trains distribute the food to domestic markets. They also transporte food for export to ports where it is loaded on oil burning ships. It is then once again distributed by fossil fuels. Increasing the cost of production of foods will increase cost and decrease the amount of food produced (based upon economics 101, a social science). Now while it really sucks to be a third worlder, you and I could cut back on other spending and feed our families. Now here is the problem. Every other product will become more expensive and rarer. Clothing, houses, utilities, soap, computers, etc. Now there is less money for less pressing needs, vacations, entertainment, the arts, education, scientific progress, etc.

That's an expensive and lifestyle shattering bill!

What are we paying for. By your own admission some unknown adjunct to a natural process that may be good or bad for humanity. I argue that science proves that warmth promotes life and life improves human lifestyles.

I advocate a wait and see before we mortgage our children's future. And I recognize that you have the same objective, but have you truly explored the price/cost benefit like a rational adult.

Wow, sure takes a lot more effort to talk to and adult like olddawg than a libtard like machine.

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I honestly don't know what to say... Someone making sense in a rational form. I just, I think I might cry. Dale comes in usually and fricks a bunch of doorknobs and makes these threads go awry. I see what you're saying of course, I dont think we're very far off the same idea, just in different directions.

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Well it's not really going anywhere, we're just stupidly no longer even sort of trying to do do anything about it.

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Play this out...

Even if the US cuts all emissions, what makes you think China and India will stop? How are you gonna stop Brazil from cutting down the rainforest?

You cant, and they won't.

What your plan to counteract what has been done already??

Got some special machine??

Its extremely narcissistic and egocentric to believe we can fix it on a whim, by ourselves... we are but one country on this vast planet, and until you can tell me how you are going to make every person on this planet fall in lock step with y'alls ridiculous ideas, y'all got nothing but more hot air... and according to yall, we already have enough

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ocean inundation

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8" or so, over the past 150 years. So it's a rather curious attribution.

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How do you connect this to AGW?

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Because it works on small scales. If it works the exact same way on a large scale, which we have no reason to think it wouldn't(see the same effect on venus), we are heating the earth faster than it would naturally. If we are edging this along, we would see record high temps, creatures in the ocean migrating earlier and further north (off our coast at least), and rising sea temperatures like we are seeing.

I cannot tell you what if or what the temperature would have been during the record years recently had humans not gotten involved, all I can tell you is we have been pumping it into the atmosphere, it works on small scales, and the earth is definitely warming.

Like bill nye, Im not a climatologist. I can list some good online classes for this stuff though if you want to learn for yourself?

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Which is about as equivalent to 3 days in the geological timeline.

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more like 3 minutes

Yeah, it was a pretty stupid thing to say.

Par for him, though.