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Started By
Message
re: What happened to Jordan Jefferson over the course of his career
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:22 am to Salviati
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:22 am to Salviati
quote:
it's been thoroughly discredited in this thread.
This coming from the man that wants to remove data points that he doesnt like.....that fricking rich.
2
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:23 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
Thorough, somewhat eloquent ... does not address the ESPN question.
nope it's just the same post, among two or three others, he's copied and pasted quite a few times in this thread
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:25 am to lsufball19
quote:
nope it's just the same post, among two or three others, he's copied and pasted quite a few times in this thread
Yep. He posts them anytime you post the reality of JJ.
I think he might actually be JJ.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:26 am to RedTigerRulz
I can't imagine there's another poster here or LSU fan in general that cares this much about this topic.
At least not enough to type that wall of text.
Numerous fricking times.
Boarder line obsession.
At least not enough to type that wall of text.
Numerous fricking times.
Boarder line obsession.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:26 am to Salviati
quote:
it's been thoroughly discredited in this thread
Denoting it as unreliable and subjective does not amount to refutation, without specific reason as to method and content.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:27 am to CptBengal
quote:
This coming from the man that wants to remove data points that he doesnt like.....that fricking rich.
and while he wants to bombard everyone with stats gerrymandered to support his own opinions, he also gives jefferson credit for non-quantifiable things like his performance in a drive where he handed the ball off to running backs. he "ran the read option to near perfection" is code for "while his actual numbers look like and were absolute dog shite, other players on the team played well, so we'll give Jefferson credit because why not."
furthermore, he's said Lee's 2009 season was worse than his 2008 season. Jarrett Lee threw 40 passes the entire 2009 season and 269 in 2008. Even a novice understanding of statistics would say that there wasn't enough statistical data for Lee in 2009 to really show anything. He threw more than 3 passes twice the entire season. He does the same for Jefferson. He picks the three games Jefferson started and use those as his basis for an entire statistical comparison. He started 5 total games, but he removes his two worst and makes up excuses as to why it's not fair to include them. He basically uses "facts" but twists and shapes them to be intentionally misleading solely for the sake of confirmation bias.
This post was edited on 7/31/15 at 11:36 am
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:29 am to RedTigerRulz
quote:I had an arbitration in St. Helena, California, last week. Fortunately for me, St. Helena is in the middle of Napa Valley. Mrs. Salviati and I had a wonderful time.
Sal....not sure if you have a job but jesus you got way too much time on your hands there podnuh.
The arbitration took a lot of hours to prepare and defend. I had a huge billable month in July. One of the biggest I've had in many years. I can take some time to rest and relax for the rest of July.
I have always enjoyed teaching. This thread is an opportunity for me enlighten some minds and spread the truth. It's a teachable moment, and I don't plan to waste it.
BCS Statmaster and CptBengal probably think they are getting to me or upsetting me with their inane posts. To the contrary, every post they type gives me an opportunity to create more teachable moments; their posts merely bump the thread and allow me greater opportunity to teach and enlighten minds. I welcome their posts, inane or not.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:32 am to CptBengal
quote:Dude, you've called me a liar twice in this tread. I've proven you wrong both times.quote:This coming from the man that wants to remove data points that he doesnt like.....that fricking rich.
it's been thoroughly discredited in this thread.
I don't remove data points. I've repeatedly discussed both the SECCG and the BCSCG.
I compare apples to apples. That's how one is supposed to compare things.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:33 am to lsufball19
quote:Different posters have posted the same inaccurate interpretations and opinions. Therefore, I use the same facts and analysis to refute those interpretations and opinions. It's not rocket science.quote:nope it's just the same post, among two or three others, he's copied and pasted quite a few times in this thread
Thorough, somewhat eloquent ... does not address the ESPN question.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:34 am to Salviati
quote:
I compare apples to apples
if you want to compare apples to apples, jarrett lee and jordan jefferson have exactly one common opponent of which they started against (alabama). they both played like shite in said starts. just take their entire body of work, like a normal person, for the entire season of 2011 and stfu.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:34 am to CptBengal
quote:I guess when you can't discredit the facts, you attempt to discredit the person who posts the facts?
I think he might actually be JJ.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:36 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
Denoting it as unreliable and subjective does not amount to refutation, without specific reason as to method and content.
Posters have REPEATEDLY explained to you why the ESPN QBR is flawed.
Moreover, that explanation has REPEATEDLY explained that one of the primary problems with the ESPN QBR is that no one outside of ESPN knows the method or content of it.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:39 am to Salviati
quote:
one of the primary problems with the ESPN QBR is that no one outside of ESPN knows the method or content of it
So how do you know it is flawed?
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:44 am to lsufball19
quote:No. Jefferson did not just "hand the ball off to running backs" in the second half of the SECCG. He threw a pass for a TD, and he was the QB for the other three TDs. In ALL FIVE of LSU's possessions in the second half of the SECCG, Jefferson either ran for, threw for, or executed an option or zone read for a first down. ALL FIVE. And again, LSU rushed better when Jefferson was QB, and the SECCG was the fourth highest YPC in 2011. (The only games with higher YPC were Jefferson's three regular season starts.)
and while he wants to bombard everyone with stats gerrymandered to support his own opinions, he also gives jefferson credit for non-quantifiable things like his performance in a drive where he handed the ball off to running backs. he "ran the read option to near perfection" is code for "while his actual numbers look like and were absolute dog shite, other players on the team played well, so we'll give Jefferson credit because why not."
quote:Lee's 2009 season was worse than his 2008 season. Lee did not have many stats for 2009, but the stats he had were worse than the stats he had in 2008.
he's said Lee's 2009 season was worse than his 2008 season. Jarrett Lee threw 40 passes the entire 2009 season and 269 in 2008. Even a novice understanding of statistics would say that there wasn't enough statistical data for Lee in 2009 to really show anything.
quote:I use all of Jefferson's regular season stats, not just three games. However, it is important to note that in ALL three games that Jefferson started, LSU's offense performed better than in ALL nine games that Lee started. That's an important comparison.
e does the same for Jefferson. He picks the three games Jefferson started and use those as his basis for an entire statistical comparison.
quote:Are you really suggesting that the championship games are comparable to the regular season games? There is a huge difference between a regular season game against Northwestern State, Kentucky, or WKU and a championship game against Georgia or Alabama. The two sets simply are not comparable.
He started 5 total games, but he removes his two worst and makes up excuses as to why it's not fair to include them. He basically uses "facts" but twists and shapes them to be intentionally misleading solely for the sake of confirmation bias.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:47 am to lsufball19
quote:First, Jefferson did not play like shite in the GOTC. He was an integral part of that victory. Lee, on the other hand, committed his own errors.
if you want to compare apples to apples, jarrett lee and jordan jefferson have exactly one common opponent of which they started against (alabama). they both played like shite in said starts. just take their entire body of work, like a normal person, for the entire season of 2011 and stfu.
Second, Jefferson is not the reason why LSU lost the BCSCG, and unlike Lee in the GOTC, Jefferson completed almost 65% of his passes. In the GOTC, Lee completed only one more pass to LSU than he did to Bama.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:47 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
Your statement(s) emphatically imply ESPN flaws, not for me to defend.
In 2012, the ESPN QBR listed Denard Robinson and Landry Jones ahead of future 1st round picks Geno Smith and Teddy Bridgewater, as well as Aaron Murray, the SEC career leader in completions, passing yards, TD passes, and total offense.... despite the latter quarterbacks having a higher NCAA Quarterback Rating... who were the better quarterbacks?
In 2013, the ESPN QBR listed Dak Prescott, who played behind Tyler Russell, ahead of future 1st round picks Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, and Blake Bortles, as well as Zach Mettenberger, who led the nation in 3rd down % and yards per pass.
This past year, the ESPN QBR listed Kenny Hill, who was benched midway through the season, as one of the Top 10 QBs in CFB.
There are plenty more examples from both CFB and from the NFL that I could use.... but I believe this is enough (if not the "adjustments" posted earlier) to demonstrate that there are obvious flaws within the ESPN QBR system.
This post was edited on 7/31/15 at 11:51 am
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:48 am to Salviati
quote:
I don't remove data points. I've repeatedly discussed both the SECCG and the BCSCG.
you exclude them from the construction of a statistic.
Unless you have a reason to do so...and it better be damn solid (oh, and yours isnt)
then that is bad math.
so sorry, Jordan.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:51 am to chilge1
Good response and to the point.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:52 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:quote:So how do you know it is flawed?
one of the primary problems with the ESPN QBR is that no one outside of ESPN knows the method or content of it
Thank you for the bump!
First Principles, BCS Statmaster
You brought up the ESPN QBR. You defend it.
You know what, I'm going to make up a statistic. I'm going to call it QBC. It stands for QB Color.
Jordan Jefferson = #461D7C (Hexadecimal)
Jarrett Lee = #FDD023 (Hexadecimal)
Now, prove to me that my QBCs for Jefferson and Lee are in any way inaccurate or factually incorrect.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 11:54 am to Salviati
quote:
Lee's 2009 season was worse than his 2008 season. Lee did not have many stats for 2009, but the stats he had were worse than the stats he had in 2008.
like i said, he didn't have enough data points to make a reliable comparison. just like using three of five starts for jefferson to lee's 9 starts.
quote:
I use all of Jefferson's regular season stats, not just three games
all his regular season starts were 3 games, so what exactly are you arguing here? And I know you used his regular season starts. We all know what you used. Most of us just feel that it's disingenuous. You obviously refuse to agree to that, so there's really no point in arguing it with you anymore, as you are going to do nothing but copying and pasting the same argument.
quote:
LSU's offense performed better than in ALL nine games that Lee started. That's an important comparison.
define "better." they were against different teams. and using their national defense ranking is also disingenuous as the quality of opponents of all those teams will be drastically different depending on conference and ooc scheduling.
quote:
Are you really suggesting that the championship games are comparable to the regular season games?
i'm suggesting the games happened and removing them from the argument is disingenuous. the two only had one common opponent, alabama. they both played horribly in those starts. so, from there, you use the data you have available to you. you use all data, not the data that suits your argument the best. just because you can provide a reason as to why you remove a data point doesn't mean you were correct in doing so.
quote:
Are you really suggesting that the championship games are comparable to the regular season games? There is a huge difference between a regular season game against Northwestern State, Kentucky, or WKU and a championship game against Georgia or Alabama. The two sets simply are not comparable.
what about all the ranked games lee started, two on the road? using statistics, you could easily prove anything in the world you wanted and not be "lying" and accurately say that you're just using "facts." But how you apply stats can be misleading
This post was edited on 7/31/15 at 11:57 am
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