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Message
re: .
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:11 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:11 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
[quote]Gun confiscation is creepy and probably authoritarian, but you will definitely see a decline is shootings/mass shootings[/quote
Nope.
Nope.
0
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:11 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot
LINK
quote:
Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise. This reduces the apparent number of homicides by between 13 per cent and 15 per cent.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:12 pm to DelU249
I wonder if the government is compensating them nicely for taking their property and protecting their fellow man?
What a croc, I hope the law get ruled unconstitutional.
What a croc, I hope the law get ruled unconstitutional.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:13 pm to DelU249
I didn't read the article, but is there an appeals process or any type of due process?
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:15 pm to DelU249
quote:
just need any doctor, or one with an agenda,
No. Here's the law:
quote:That's 1
VI. MENTAL HYGIENE LAW - 9.46 REFERRAL
The Safe Act added a new section 9.46 to the Mental Hygiene Law that requires a mental health professional to report, as soon as practicable,
quote:That's 2
to his or her director of community services, any person under his or her care if the professional believes such person “is likely to engage in
conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others.”
The director of community services must, if he or she agrees with this determination
quote:
report the subject person to DCJS personnel, who will make an initial screening to determine if the subject potentially has a NYS-issued firearms license or has applied for one. If so, DCJS will notify the
State Police to confirm the existence of the license and the licensing authority will be notified so they can make a determination
That's 3
quote:
as to whether to suspend or revoke the subject’s license.
The licensing authority, and the appropriate local law enforcement agency, will handle the suspension and the recovery of any weapons in the same manner as they do now in the event the licensing authority revokes a firearms license.
If three people, including your own psychiatrist, believe you're nuts and a threat to others, you probably shouldn't have a gun.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:20 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I'd rather be stabbed by a butter knife than shot.
What about blown up? Bc if someone wants to commit mass murder, they have all the tools they need to make a small explosive and take out a portion of a school cafeteria or shopping mall. Lunatics gonna lunatic.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:21 pm to DelU249
quote:
just need a doctor to report you. just need any doctor, or one with an agenda, to tell the state you're a lunatic
I have no problem with this. Think about the old days in a small town. Everyone knew the villiage idiot/psycho and they certainly wouldnt put him in charge of the armory.
All this is doing is identifying the modern day villiage idiot and not allowing him to be a threat.
If youre worried about this, chances are you are the villiage idiot. You should be worried.
This post was edited on 12/3/14 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:23 pm to DelU249
quote:
No clearly defined standard, just someone's word
Yep, right up to the point that a hospital organization or doctor's practice is sued for about $100 million for making an unsubstantiated claim.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:24 pm to Vegas Bengal
12 people wrongly convict people all the time
So what?
3 people can think a guy is suicidal without him saying anything definitive...taken
There no standard, whether you admit it or not. Even if that passes for you, it will be applied inconsistently. Any 3 will do
And
So it immediately goes to step 3 where a politician, gee that's so smart, makes the final determination
And it is rarely the same 3 people
I'd love to see how many of these reported individuals don't get to step 3, as you call it, I'd also love to see how many different therapists have reported individuals
If you think that's a fair or air tight standard to deprive someone of their rights then frick you
So what?
3 people can think a guy is suicidal without him saying anything definitive...taken
There no standard, whether you admit it or not. Even if that passes for you, it will be applied inconsistently. Any 3 will do
And
quote:I wonder how often that happens. You ever run a chit up a chain of command?
quote: to his or her director of community services, any person under his or her care if the professional believes such person “is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others.” The director of community services must, if he or she agrees with this determination
So it immediately goes to step 3 where a politician, gee that's so smart, makes the final determination
And it is rarely the same 3 people
I'd love to see how many of these reported individuals don't get to step 3, as you call it, I'd also love to see how many different therapists have reported individuals
If you think that's a fair or air tight standard to deprive someone of their rights then frick you
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:28 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
The UK has a higher violent crime rate.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:29 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
In UK, only 14 people died of gunshot wounds last yea
I couldn't find anything more recent but here are the figures for 2007:
Australia: 30 homicides by firearms; Number of firearms: 3,050,000
Canada: 173 homicides by firearms; Number of firearms: 9,950,000
England: 41 homicides by firearms; Number of firearms: 3,400,000
Honduras: 5201 homicides by firearms; Number of firearms: 500,000
US: 9,146 homicides by firearms; Number of firearms: 270,000,000
• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
• Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:35 pm to DelU249
Right. Bc who wants to be the public employee who doesn't rubber stamp the process for the guy who then goes and murders someone with his gun. I'd bet that most go through with little thought. All on the opinion of a psychiatrist who may not even have treated you for long. There is so much controversy within the psych community surrounding certain drugs and symptoms of mental disorders. That's why it's important to find a dr that's right for you as an individual. Go to the wrong doc and all of a sudden your constitutional rights are null. Sweet.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:37 pm to DelU249
quote:
There no standard
Just out of curiosity, what type of standard do you think would be acceptable? The "harm to self or others" is a pretty common standard used in psychiatry to temporarily take away ones rights. That isn't new.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:39 pm to onmymedicalgrind
Don't those cases have to go before a judge before their rights are suspended?
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:40 pm to onmymedicalgrind
Standard term to describe infinitely varying situations
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:41 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:Don't think it's higher "violent" crime rate
The UK has a higher violent crime rate.
But Hail's 14 figure was correct for 2011:
Homicides by firearms:
UK: 14 Ranked 39th.
US: 9,369 Ranked 4th. 669 times more than United Kingdom
Violent crime murders:
UK: 722 Ranked 34th.
US: 12,996 Ranked 9th. 18 times more than United Kingdom
Total Crimes per 1000:
UK: 109.96 Ranked 4th. 3 times more than United States
US: 41.29 Ranked 22nd.
But how violent can those crimes be when comparing this:
UK: 78,753 prisoners Ranked 15th.
US: 2.02 million prisoners Ranked 1st. 26 times more than United Kingdom
Whatever crimes they're committing in England, they're not locking them up like we are LINK
This post was edited on 12/3/14 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:42 pm to DelU249
quote:
Standard term to describe infinitely varying situations
Yeah, because the very nature of the law is to try to describe the subjectivity and complexity of the human experience in black and white, objective word that have concrete definitions.
Every standard written can be described as:
quote:
Standard term to describe infinitely varying situations
ETA: That's why we have lawyers, and judges, and people, and juries, and appeals, and due process
This post was edited on 12/3/14 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:45 pm to LSUGrrrl
quote:
Don't those cases have to go before a judge before their rights are suspended?
Nope.
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:46 pm to DelU249
quote:
Standard term to describe infinitely varying situations
Like...
Posted on 12/3/14 at 4:49 pm to onmymedicalgrind
anywhere on the spectrum from
"sometimes I think there's no point to life"
to
"I'm going to go kill a shitzillion people"
and the determination is made subjectively by the doctor..."it is my determination that"
oh, well if you say so...STAMP
surely as either a resident or medical student you realize that there are innumerable incompetent, unethical, and/or untruthful doctors.
"sometimes I think there's no point to life"
to
"I'm going to go kill a shitzillion people"
and the determination is made subjectively by the doctor..."it is my determination that"
oh, well if you say so...STAMP
surely as either a resident or medical student you realize that there are innumerable incompetent, unethical, and/or untruthful doctors.
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