This is the only logic-based, performance-based criteria to select 9mm (IMHO). There was a time when you couldn't get a heavier caliber in a concealable weapon. Now, it's hard to think of a weapon made in 9mm and not in .40 S&W (although I'm sure there are some.)

quote:
marginal ballistics difference

This is a really loaded analysis. "Marginal" is in the eyes of the shooter and target. If your super hot, composite alloy, molecularly bonded, computer designed, +P++ 9mm round stops the fight after 1 hit - then the difference is marginal. If the little extra *oomph* from a heavier bullet, making a larger wound channel, under the real world conditions of the platform, intermediate obstacles and target would have made the difference in you winning the gunfight and living, versus losing the gunfight and dying, the difference is likely going to be regarded as greater than marginal.

But, again, I'm not anti-9mm - I'm probably as pro-9mm as I have been in my life.

Still not much, but it is no longer anti -

That's progress, right Bap?

This post was edited on 9/23/14 at 10:37 am

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Posted by bapple

Capital City

Member since Oct 2010

11924 posts

Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:33 am to Ace Midnight

quote:
r. It performs well. But I don't see the purpose of bashing the other 3 calibers (40. 45, 357 sig).

I never did such a thing. I've always said it's personal preference and that you will get marginal performance differences from any service caliber. Just do your research on the best JHP bullet/barrel length combination for your gun and carry often.

FWIW I carry Hornady Critical Defense. It's a standard pressure, light-for-caliber 9mm. ShootingtheBull's test of it convinced me that it was better out of a short barrel than the Critical Duty I was carrying. I learned that (in basic terms) greater velocity = less penetration using the same cartridge. To put in basic terms, A Critical Duty out of my 3.5" M&P will penetrate MORE than it will out of my 5" Core. Plus, Critical Defense penetrated between 12-13" in his test. That data would lead me to believe that if I had to use my gun in self defense that te bullet may stay in the perp, which is ideally what I would prefer to happen. That was how I came to the conclusion of what to carry.

quote:
That's progress, right Bap?

I guess it just depends on if you want large bore over capacity. If the difference is around 500 lb-ft for the hottest loads of two different calibers, I will take my chances on my errant/accurate follow-up shots. 500 x 2 > 600.

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Posted by dawg23

Baton Rouge, La

Member since Jul 2011

5065 posts

Posted on 9/23/14 at 6:44 pm to Ace Midnight

quote:
Capacity and effective firing rate -- This is the only logic-based, performance-based criteria to select 9mm

You, sir, are correct. But a lot of the people posting in this thread don't understand, or perhaps choose to ignore, the "effective firing rate" component.

I used to carry a .40 -- did so for a lot of years. But with today's 9mm ammo, I'm more comfortable with a G19 than I would be with a G23. I shoot the G19 faster, and it holds more ammo.

The "old" conventional wisdom was to carry the biggest caliber you could "control." Today's top-tier instructors will tell you to carry the caliber that lets you shoot at the fastest rate of fire while still getting good hits.

I see a lot of students who think firing one shot every five or six seconds is an acceptable rate of fire for self-defense. Anybody can do this with a just about any caliber handgun -- and that's hardly the goal one should strive for.

Muzzle flip is a consideration in picking a SD caliber -- 'cause that's the biggest factor in achieving (or limiting) our rate of fire.

I'll go out on a limb here and say (assuming one maintains the same level of accuracy) that 99% of us can shoot a 9mm faster than we can a .40 (in the same frame gun, like G19 vs. G23). Similarly, we'll all shoot a .22 faster than a 9mm, but the point of significant diminishing returns comes into play quickly with a handgun chambered in .22 LR.

Anyone who has practiced, or shot in competition, with an electronic timer has easily seen the effect of muzzle flip on handgun rates of fire. They have also seen that 1 shot every 5-6 seconds is really slow (and that 4-6 shots per second is achievable, with practice, depending on the degree of muzzle flip).

p.s. 9mm practice ammo is a lot cheaper than .380, .40 and .45 caliber practice ammo. This should enable those who don't have unlimited training budgets to achieve a higher level of proficiency with a 9mm (all other things being equal).

Just my $.02 worth.

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