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re: Army Times - Bergdahl's attorney also fought for Army captain in espionage case
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:57 pm to Navytiger74
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:57 pm to Navytiger74
Marines. Lance Corporal twice. Almost got busted from SSGT to Sgt but they just took my pay.
Sorry for partying.
Sorry for partying.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 7:59 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:58 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Almost got busted from SSGT to Sgt but they just took my pay.
A worthy compromise.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:58 pm to Navytiger74
The 15-6 is usually used for more general inquiries- like what happened, the investigating officer may be looking for the specific facts, systematic issues, so in this case if a 15-6 officer is appointed he may be answering questions concerning how this can be stopped in the future, was there a failure in command.
The Article 32 investigating officer is looking at whether an individual should be brought up on charges- Should Berghdahl face Court Martial or something else.
Maybe the AR 15-6 is the same as the Navy Court of Inquiry, like what do you use if a ship runs aground, or a bunch of naval aviators have a massive blow out and offend some people.
The Article 32 investigating officer is looking at whether an individual should be brought up on charges- Should Berghdahl face Court Martial or something else.
Maybe the AR 15-6 is the same as the Navy Court of Inquiry, like what do you use if a ship runs aground, or a bunch of naval aviators have a massive blow out and offend some people.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:03 pm to OleWar
quote:Rgr. Good info.
The 15-6 is usually used for more general inquiries- like what happened, the investigating officer may be looking for the specific facts, systematic issues, so in this case if a 15-6 officer is appointed he may be answering questions concerning how this can be stopped in the future, was there a failure in command.
quote:
The Article 32 investigating officer is looking at whether an individual should be brought up on charges- Should Berghdahl face Court Martial or something else.
Got. I'm pretty familiar with these because by the time a situation hits the news the proceedings are usually at this phase. I guess I've just always heard Article 15 used loosely just as a reference to NJP (which we call Mast).
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:09 pm to Navytiger74
My last one was conducted by none other than the Commanding General of MARFOREUR.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:24 pm to EthanL
quote:
EthanL
I know that all sounded profound to you in your head, but the reality is he made a commitment to his Nation and to others who placed their trust in him. Others who would have gladly risked their lives to save him if called upon. And he violated that trust and abandoned his post. In the face of the enemy. In doing so he selfishly put the lives of others at risk.
You can create this mythical, heroic, romantic narrative in your mind that is totally disconnected with what actually occured. The reality is he is just another selfish person who failed to keep his word. An apt reflection of our society.
Think about that.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:36 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
My last one was conducted by none other than the Commanding General of MARFOREUR.
I've never had my arse chewed by a Marine Corps General Officer, but it can't be too pleasant. Got it pretty good from a Col once, though.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:44 pm to MSCoastTigerGirl
quote:
What does this mean, if you don't mind me asking?
Coastie (may I call you Coastie?), the essential elements of it have been answered by Ole War and Navytiger74. If a commander believes there is a reasonable possibility that a crime has been committed or misconduct has occurred, he/she can appoint an AR 15-6 investigating officer to review the facts and make a recommendation on how to proceed (reprimand, admonishment, non-judicial punishment or a courts martial). This investigation can be informal or informal. Just another tool for use by commander (our entire judicial system is rooted in the role of the commander). This is what Major General Dahl is doing right now in regards to Sergeant Bergdahl.
Keep in mind, a commander is a position, not a rank. There can be two officers of equal rank (e.g. colonels) but based upon duty position, only one of them (the commander) has authority to administer non-judicial punishment and conduct investigations.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:03 pm to Wolfhound45
Yes, you can call me Coastie.
I've been texting my army friend and he somewhat explained it to me, but admitted that he didn't know all of the details. He basically said that Article 15's are serious shite, but he wasn't sure what the dash 6 meant. He has been out for a while.
That was an excellent explanation. Thanks for taking the time to type all of that out, seriously.
I've been texting my army friend and he somewhat explained it to me, but admitted that he didn't know all of the details. He basically said that Article 15's are serious shite, but he wasn't sure what the dash 6 meant. He has been out for a while.
That was an excellent explanation. Thanks for taking the time to type all of that out, seriously.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:23 pm to MSCoastTigerGirl
quote:
Coastie
It is referring to Army Regulation 15-6 (Procedures for Investigating Officers and Boards of Officers). In Army slang it is referred to as a "fifteen dash six" investigation.
Politard 1 - Did you hear about Jbird?
Politard 2 - Yeah brother, the old man is ticked. Looks like he is going to give him a fifteen dash six for that post he made.
It means you are being looked at by a commander in your chain of command for some form of crime or misconduct. In general, not good.
An Article 15 comes from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It has pretty much been determined that you committed some form of offense. You can either accept punishment from the commander (non-judicial punishment - think misdemeanor - fined, restricted to the barracks and additional work details) or you can request a trial by courts martial (much more serious - more towards a felony offense - if convicted you can face jail time). From my perspective, if I offer you an Article 15 you better take it. I am not going to offer one unless I feel I can win in a courts martial (lesson learned from my days as a lieutenant).
ETA: This is what GeauxxxTigers23 is referring to when he says NJP (e.g. non-judicial punishment). Also known (I think) in Navy parlance as a Captain's Mast. Bottom line, I don't want you hanging out with the GeauxxxTigers23 kid. He is bad news.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 9:26 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:31 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Politard 1 - Did you hear about Jbird?
Politard 2 - Yeah brother, the old man is ticked. Looks like he is going to give him a fifteen dash six for that post he made.
I lol'd.
quote:
From my perspective, if I offer you an Article 15 you better take it. I am not going to offer one unless I feel I can win in a courts martial (lesson learned from my days as a lieutenant).
Gotcha. It makes a lot more sense. I understand it now. Thanks.
Like you said, I hope he isn't made a martyr. Give him a fair trial and let him be dealt with accordingly.
quote:
. Bottom line, I don't want you hanging out with the GeauxxxTigers23 kid. He is bad news.
No doubt. He is waging the war on womenz all by himself.
Just kidding, Geauxxx.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:38 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:Good for Bergdahl.
Bergdahl's attorney also fought for Army captain in espionage case
I honestly see no problem with him securing an experienced attorney. I see no problem with an experienced attorney defending him. I do wonder who is paying. Perhaps the service is for gratis? I also wonder what the delay is about in assigning charges or clearing the guy.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:45 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I also wonder what the delay is about in assigning charges or clearing the guy.
I want him to have the best possible defense, period. No question about what the outcome is.
As far as potentially referring charges against him, that will not occur until after the AR 15-6 investigation is completed by Major General Dahl and he reports his findings to the courts martial convening authority.
My guess, he will eventually be charged with desertion and summarily tried and convicted. The evidence is very strong. He would then (again - my opinion) be reduced to private, forfeit all pay and allowances but serve no jail time. Merely a guess though.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:48 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:interesting
In an interview with Military Times weeks before he became Bergdahl’s attorney, Fidell said there is an “unwritten policy” to avoid court-martialing service members who have spent time as POWs.
“I don’t think they’ll do that in this case,” Fidell said in the June 2 interview. “Unless something comes to light that suggests that he was a turncoat or joined the other side or assisted the other side in some way. … There is no public indication that any of those things are true in his case.”
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:55 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
interesting
Good catch.
This guy is good, real good. The best. But on this matter (quite frankly), this is wishful thinking on his part (and he knows it). The evidence of intent and action is (fairly) rock solid (as long as they focus solely on desertion - do not delve into any other areas which you cannot categorically prove - such as treason). Bottom line, I think he is already positioning himself to (eventually) accept a plea deal when Sergeant Bergdahl is charged.
Ace Midnight, any thoughts?
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:56 pm to Wolfhound45
As always, your explanations are excellent.
Thanks again for the explanation.
It's getting to be my bed time. Awesome chatting with you.
Thanks again for the explanation.
It's getting to be my bed time. Awesome chatting with you.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:57 pm to MSCoastTigerGirl
quote:
Awesome chatting with you.
Good night young lady.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:58 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:Of course. My question is why the delay? This happened several years ago. There surely would have been a contemporary investigation, evidence gathered, and preliminary conclusions drawn. The mitigating factor would be Bergdhal's own account/explanation. Presumably that has occurred, or it won't occur at all sans court-martial.
that will not occur until after the AR 15-6 investigation is completed by Major General Dahl and he reports his findings to the courts martial convening authority.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:07 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
My question is why the delay?
An initial AR 15-6 was done in theater. I would assume by either his brigade or division commander. The results of that investigation remain classified. Interesting to say the least. If they provided exculpatory information then I would anticipate that they would have been released to the public by now. The fact they have not leads me to believe they are not flattering to Sergeant Bergdahl.
I would assume that Major General Dahl is being very, very thorough. Interviewing each member of his platoon and company who has direct knowledge of the events that led up to his disappearance and immediately afterward. Lots of traveling and a lot of interviews. I want him to be as thorough as possible. When the findings of the investigation are presented to the appointing officer they will (in all likelihood) provide much of the evidence (or at least the framework) for the case against Sergeant Bergdahl. And then the real fun begins. My guess is that he will plea early in order to avoid a (potential) trip to the Military Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. It would not turn out well for him there (just being dead honest).
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:15 pm to Jbird
quote:
Who is paying for the high dollar mouth piece?
The terorists/Obama of course.
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