re: Siap, McShay and Hoge discuss Mettenberger...

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Again, I'll mention the fact that OBJ,Juice & a explosive running game helped ZM8 out a ton this year.

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And I dont think anyone is saying they didnt.

But, they werent making the throws. Mett was. And most of the time, the throws were really good. And it was in an NFL style system and he had to make NFL throws. And he did that.

The hardest ball to throw is when you are on the left hash, and you run an deep out to the right sideline. Mett made this time over and over again and made it look easy. Its the hardest ball to throw in the game because its 20 yards deep, 40 yards wide, and depending on the D it has to get there really really fast, or thrown in with superb touch over the defender in zone.

If the ball doesnt get there quick enough, its picked off because its such a long throw and takes a while to get there that the defender has enough time to recover. If its not thrown in with the perfect amount of touch, it gets picked because the defender is underneath in zone.

Mett completed that pass time and time again. And made it look easy. OBJ, Jarvis, and Hill werent making that throw. He was. Did the WRs bail him out sometimes? Sure. Did the running game take pressure off of him? Sure. But Mett also helped the WRs out and the running game a lot because of his ability to throw the ball. Its a symbiotic relationship. You run to open up the pass, and you pass to open up the run. But when it was time to throw the ball, he did a fantastic job of it and really improved his decision making and reading through his progressions.

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So Mett made OBJ & Juice better receivers?

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No more than they made him a better quarterback. You are the one that started up this chicken/egg slippery slope. I was just pointing out the flaw in that logic.

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I've got to admit that the draft analysts try to make a case for several Qbs in every draft to be NFL starters. Guys who are probably the best in that particular draft, but aren't special compared to the talent already in the league. Quinn, Barkely, Clausen, Geno, Weeden, etc.

The truth is... that only 32-ish actually start and only the top 10-15 are truly difference makers. This fact is compounded by the 10-15 year window of college QB talent to take those 32 spots.

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I think it's got worse with analyst this year. Especially since the draft is 2 weeks later. They are fishing for any piece of information to throw on the wall [specifically at the QB position].

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Is Mett a sure-fire starter? I don't think so. He's not an Elway or Luck.
Does he have the potential to be a Gabbert, Bradford, Sanchez, Ponder, or better? I think so.

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He'll need to go to a situation where the offensive line & ground game is a strong suit. If Mett went to a situation like Chicago or Atlanta I'd be fearful of injury. Minnesota or Cleveland wouldn't be a bad landing spot for him especially if you are looking for him to start from day 1. Second, I agree with you that he is better than the QB's listed above. Things could be very interesting if St.Louis decided to spend a 2nd or 3rd pick on him.

Theres no doubt Mett helped them become better WRs and opened up the running game. OBJ had 475yards and 2 TDs with JJ/Lee at QB. Thats not really calling him a threat.

And Jarvis made some great catches to help Mett out. But Mett also made some great passes to Jarvis that helped him out as well.

And 2012, sure Mett struggled. But what did he do this season with a legit QB coach in Cameron? He was a completely diff QB.

Sure he struggled vs Ole Miss. But there were games were our running games struggled. And there were games where OBJ was non existent. Actually, the only games OBJ did much was against crappy opponents. Jarvis was mr reliable and always showed up to play. And there were games where Mett kept us in the game.

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Out of the top 3 QBs, Bortles translates the best to the NFL. Is he gonna be great? No. But I think hes a safer pick than Manziel and will be better than Bridgewater. Thats the thing with this QB draft class though. All these "experts" act like Bortles, Bridgewater, and Manziel are the clear cut top 3 QBs. But based on what I have seen these guys do in college and at combine / pro day, I cant confidently say those guys will be better in the NFL than QBs like Mett, McCarron, Carr, Murray, etc. Manziel is the most electrifying, but comes with a lot of questions about how he translates to the NFL. Bortles has the size, arm, tape, attitude, etc to be an NFL QB, but played against bad competition in college so his tape could be a bit misleading. And Bridgewater was the top guy a few months ago, but was bad at his pro day and he doesnt have the potential to be a great NFL QB. Could be a solid QB, like an Andy Dalton, but he wont be an elite NFL QB.

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Most of this is wrong. Bortles tape is horrible. The guy is a one read QB with an average arm. Manziel is a poor man's Russell Wilson. Bridgewater is your guy with mobility, adequate height, above average arm, quick release, great accuracy, fundamentally sound, and the best football IQ in the past few years. There is a reason why he is compared to Aaron Rodgers, which I have believed for a while now. You need to re watch game tape and not just highlights to get an opinion. Bortles is another Jake Locker bust and Manziel can't do what he does in the NFL like that.

I like Mett with a dominate OL, good receivers and a couple years in a system. Carr can go anyway, but I think he'll be decent.

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He'll need to go to a situation where the offensive line & ground game is a strong suit.

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This is the status quo for most Pocket Passers...
or you have to have an elite screen game or an elite Slot receiver.

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If Mett went to a situation like Chicago or Atlanta I'd be fearful of injury.

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Maybe so. I've seen teams manage a lack of mobility with a good short passing game. But, I'm not sure his arm's as strong as Cutler or that he could handle the volume passing that Stafford/Brees does in Detroit/NO.

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Minnesota or Cleveland, St. Louis

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Along with Kansas City, SD, Houston, & Giants would be decent fits.

Some further reaches would be:
NE - But Mallet's there.
Baltimore & TB - Dat Flacco contract & both running games fell off.
GB - Set on Qbs.

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I agree with you that he is better than the QB's listed above.

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He might be, but sometimes the player/situation don't always work out. I'd feel more comfortable putting his potential in the Top 10-25 range.
Could he be a Cutler, Rivers, Eli? Maybe so.

But the bottom 10 tend to not stay starters for very long. I'd rather him go to a better team that's a good fit (like Rodgers to GB) than him go to the teams with a permanent revolving door at QB.

Dont say ignorant things and i wont call them out

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Most of this is wrong.

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No its not. Everything you said is youre opinion. Just like everything I posted was my opinion. Just like everything McShay, Kiper, Jaws, etc say is their opinion.

Bortles tape is not horrible. Over 3500yards at a 68% completion % and 25 TDs to 9 INTs. QBR of 163. And can improvise and keep plays alive with his feet and size, ala Big Ben. Average arm? Its better than Bridgewaters.

at the fact that you said Teddy Bridgewater has the highest football IQ to come out in the past few years. Did you forget about someone named Andrew Luck? Russell Wilson?

The only thing Bridgewater and Rodgers have in common is size and release. Thats it. Rodgers has a ridiculous arm, while Bridgewater, at best, has an average NFL arm. Not saying you need a huge arm to be successful in the NFL. But arm strength isnt 1 of Bridgewaters best qualities.

I agree hes accurate, smart, can move around, and has a nice release. But he does not have a very high ceiling. and has limitations. He will most likely be a solid QB. I dont think he will ever be a top 10 QB in league.

So you watched every game tape of Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel? No you dont. Ive seen all of them play a few games over the course of their careers.

And again, its dumb to say this is wrong and Im right when it comes to predicting someones future in the NFL. Its all opinion and speculation. IMO, Bortles will be a better NFL QB than Bridgewater. IMO, Bridgewater is comparable to Andy Dalton and be an average NFL QB. In your opinion, Bridgewater is the best QB in the draft. In your opinion, hes comparable to Aaron Rodgers.

I dont see it, but Im not gonna sit here and say that you are wrong and your assessment was dumb. Because nobody knows what these guys will end up like in a few years.

Fine have it your way.

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Hes had team success every season.

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Yeah... all due to brady?
You are an Idiot.

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ignore the constant

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You mean Belichick?
But hey... just stay ignorant of everything that I actually implied.

1. He hasn't won a Superbowl since 2004 where the focal point of the team was Defense and not him.
2. Randy Moss was the reason he set the passing records in 2007.
3. Winning year after year has more to do with elite personnel decisions and the poor quality of the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins organizations than with Brady.

Please explain the ignorance of all of this?
These specific factors are not credible?
Noone else but Brady can be an explanation?
You are an Idiot.

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But then that contradicts the talking point you already established here

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This refers to a rebuttal of a sarcastic comment that had nothing to do with the original topic.
In case you didn't know, a post can cover more than one topic. Try to keep up.

Jim implied that a system does not make a Qb bad...
I implied that being on a losing team doesn't make a Qb bad (which could also be used to make the opposite point that being on a winning team doesn't make a QB good).
All three points are valid and correct.
But sadly, your retort wasn't valid, and it wasn't correct.
You are an Idiot.

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Btw do you really want to compare Matt Cassels 08 season to Bradys 07 season? Or to Bradys career?

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Sure.
Let's look at Ole Cassel's 2008 year. Since you wanna Cherry pick one of the greatest statistical seasons ever.... I'll improve on that option with an intellectually superior one.

Doing a direct comparison of a year from Brady's career with a similar system and attempts.... let's use Brady's 2006 year, which also had 516 attempts.
Let's also add in the average of all the years with non-600+ attempts, which would be 2002-2010. (the offense clearly changed after 2010 and wouldn't be a direct comparison),
Hell. Let's even use your suggestion of Brady's Career Numbers.

Attempts, Comp, Yds, TD, Int, Rating, Compl %, Y/Att, Rush Yds.

Cassel
516, 327, 3693, 21, 11, 89.4, 63.4, 7.16, 270

Brady 1:
516, 319, 3529, 24, 12, 87.9, 61.8, 6.8, 102

Brady 2:
535, 341, 3977, 30, 11, 96.1, 63.6, 7.45, 70

Brady 3:
560, 355, 4202, 31, 11, 96.4, 63.4, 7.52, 66

There. all out in the open.
Pretty damn close to 2006, wouldn't you say?
Better rating, better completion percentage, better yards per attempt. All-in-all, pretty identical years.

For the pre-2010 average, completion percentage is the same, but Brady is about 300 yds and 9 Tds better. If you consider Cassel didn't play a full 16 games. This one is pretty damn even too.

And Brady's Career numbers are skewed by the recent advent of touch football by the NFL.

All in all, the numbers indicated that Brady is a better Qb than Cassel... shocker!
But the difference is marginal when using Cassel's 2008 season as a comparison.

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The Pats won 7 fewer games with Cassel instead of Brady. Thats a huge drop off. Bradys 07 season blew Cassels 08 out ofthe water as well as most seasons in the leagues history.

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They won one fewer in 2009 when Brady came back. Kinda makes you look like a fool when that little tidbit is presented.... doesn't it?

Hell, they've won between 10-12 games in 6 of the 9 years since they won their last Supebowl.
What kinda gotcha point did you think you were making?

Now, I've proven that I'm completely knowledgeable about Brady, Cassel, and the Patriots.
Yet, You are still an Idiot.


When you attempt to expose someone as being ignorant and then they shite all over you.....
You lose your credibility.